VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 11-21-2011, 06:26 PM
HURMANAV8R's Avatar
HURMANAV8R HURMANAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chesapeake VA 23320
Posts: 64
Default Dimple or countersink?

Building my baby and ready to start skinning the tail, whats the advice here, countersink or dimple. Just asking for input and advice.
__________________
J. Michael Phillips
Harmon Rocket II SN 509, tail done working on wings.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-21-2011, 06:41 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default

Depends on what part you are talking about.

Skins and ribs, dimple.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-21-2011, 06:46 PM
leaker311 leaker311 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: texas
Posts: 68
Default easy.. really?

Dimple when you can, and countersink when you can't
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-21-2011, 07:16 PM
Rivethead Rivethead is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Corvallis Oregon.
Posts: 680
Default

You shouldn't even need to ask this question. If you're that unsure of what it is you're doing you should stop right now and take a builders assistance class. One weekend and you could be up to speed for the entire project.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-21-2011, 07:38 PM
Don's Avatar
Don Don is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 696
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivethead View Post
You shouldn't even need to ask this question. If you're that unsure of what it is you're doing you should stop right now and take a builders assistance class. One weekend and you could be up to speed for the entire project.
Rivethead is right but you could just read the first part of the manual Van's ships with the kits and save the cost of a class. The BA classes are fine but they sure are not necessary, particularly if you're inclined to read for understanding. The manual covers your question and a whole lot more. If however, you're the kind of person who would rather follow directions and not think, take the builders class. It might save your life.

Take your time and fight the urge to rush. Learn the techniques before you try them out on plane parts. For the most part we all started off wanting to finish in record time or within some time frame. Almost everyone figures out quickly that rushing means doing the job over sooner or later and that is a LOT slower than figuring it out and doing it right from the start (and even then you won't always get it right - today I made 3 fuel lines to get two that met my standards).

Enough preaching. Generally you dimple up to and including 0.032 sheet aluminum. Thicker than than you'll counter sink. Practice counter sinking - it is harder than it looks to get precisely countersunk holes. Find some scrap (or buy some hardware store aluminum angle) and practice.
__________________
Don Alexander
Virginia
RV-9A 257SW Purchase Flying - O-320, Dynon D100
RV-9A 702DA (reserved) Finish Kit IOX-340
www.propjock.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-22-2011, 05:53 PM
HURMANAV8R's Avatar
HURMANAV8R HURMANAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chesapeake VA 23320
Posts: 64
Default thank you

Thank you or your input, the reason I was asking was in the military we were not exposed to dimpling, even as a part time metal bender, in my unit we cross trained to help with every job. If a panel needed replacment or even worse was damaged we all learned to countersink.
I figured on dimpling as much as possible but just thought I would ask, wondring if there was a secret out there I was unaware of.

Trust me all, everything possible will be dimpled!
__________________
J. Michael Phillips
Harmon Rocket II SN 509, tail done working on wings.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-17-2011, 06:24 PM
Aden Rich Aden Rich is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Port Angeles, Wash
Posts: 373
Default There is the right way to dimple too.

There have been many threads on dimpling as well.
The perfect dimple is done using a C-frame dimple tool-like the kind you get from Avery or Cleaveland.
However, you don't just put your dimple dies in and start pounding.
I have a dimpling table set up where the C-frame is inset into the table and the male part of the die is just barely above the level of the table. THe table is covered with tight weave carpet so you don't scratch the skins while moving them around.
Next you want to support the bottom part of the C-frame/rivet set with a steel rod that goes down to the floor. I have a hole in my bench that my steel rod goes down to the floor and a shim and metal foot to accept the steel rod. The rod that goes down into the foot it slightly chamferred so it sits a recessed hole in the metal foot plate so it cannot walk around. This braces the rivet set so that when you put the two dies together and hit it with the dead blow hammer, there is no give in the C-frame/rivet set. All the impact goes to directly into the skin/dies. There is no flexing. You should see a small circle (same diameter as the die set) lightly imprinted on skin where the dies mated to the skins perfectly.
This the best way to dimple skins up to .040. The next best is using the rivet squeezer, however, this will pull the skin down slightly when you bring the two dies together. You can see a small indentation around the whole rivet area when compared to a dimple set with a C-frame/dead blow hammer. The hammer is so much faster and clean when setting the dies to the skin.
My Dad tried to counter sink the rivets on the horizontal stab and he has rivet heads sticking up all over the place. Then you have to shave them and that can get tricky.
__________________
Aden Rich
Never met an airplane I didn't like!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:06 PM
cdmiller's Avatar
cdmiller cdmiller is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Battle Ground, Washington
Posts: 138
Default Amen to what Aden said

Aden hit the nail on the head with his advice. Steel support under the dimple dies will result in sharp, perfect dimples. Use the C-frame whenever possible.

Dan Miller
RV-8 1070 hours
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-19-2011, 06:15 AM
HURMANAV8R's Avatar
HURMANAV8R HURMANAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chesapeake VA 23320
Posts: 64
Default

Thanks for the advise everyone, I had mad a table when building out my shop so that was already there, I have dimpled the first skin and started to rivet, so thanks again!
__________________
J. Michael Phillips
Harmon Rocket II SN 509, tail done working on wings.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:09 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.