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View Poll Results: Do you wear a parachute?
Never 66 62.86%
Only during test work 5 4.76%
Only during two-up acro 20 19.05%
Only during formation 0 0%
I wear one all the time 14 13.33%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 12-15-2011, 04:30 PM
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N355DW N355DW is offline
 
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Location: Port St Lucie, FL
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Just to be clear, it's very unlikely you will ever need to use your chute, even if you do decide to wear one. In thirty years of flying it has only happened once that I almost used mine.

A rudder cable slipped out of a nicopress sleeve (stainless steel is not a good idea for cables, it's more slippery than galvanized). I was flying a Pitts Model 12 I had been asked by the builder to demo in an aerobatic contest. I was practicing with a friend critiquing me from the ground, and when I went to recover from an inverted spin in the sequence I heard a loud "bang" as the rudder went to the floor. It's true what they say about time slowing down, it seemed to take forever for my hand to go for the canopy release, and it being a new airplane, the release was stiff to open. I got it about half way open when the plane recovered from the spin on it's own. (This is true of many planes, especially as anything under two turns is an incipient spin) So I stayed in it, but now I had to figure out how to land it without groundlooping it. I considered climbing up to 4000 or 5000' and jumping, but hated to destroy a brand new plane that wasn't mine, so we brainstormed a bit and came up with the idea to pull the pedal off the floor with the cable, and tie off the cable to the longeron so I could now use the brake on top of the rudder pedal to steer on landing. Called in the fire trucks and ambulance just in case, and I made one of the best landings I ever have! Amazing what total concentration can do!

Anyway, I very nearly did use it as I was probably at 1200 - 1500' or so when I started the recovery, but once the plane had recovered from the spin, it was nice to know I still had that option if I had decided to use it.

So since I already own parachutes I see no reason not to sit on them while I'm flying, though I truly do expect I will most likely never need to use it. RV's have such nice low stall speeds that there are lots of options putting down in small areas after an engine failure. So I have no problem with those who choose not to wear one, it is unlikely you will need it. Especially if your flying is mostly non-aerobatic, day VFR cross country flying.

Last edited by N355DW : 12-15-2011 at 04:38 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2011, 07:44 PM
pilot28906 pilot28906 is offline
 
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Location: Murphy, NC
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So what is the story behind the spinning plane in the video?
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2011, 08:56 PM
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Adam Wright Adam Wright is offline
 
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Location: Ozark, AL
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John, most of the story is under the video info. He somehow manged to put the Tipsy Nipper he was flying in a inadvertent flat spin in which recovery inputs were ineffective. During the spin the engine quit. He almost gave up hope but never stop flying the aircraft. The aircraft thankful came out of the spin a few hundred feet about the ground. This was followed by a hasty forced landing. The aircraft clipped a barbed wire fence during the landing causing it to flip! He survived obviously and must have been counting his lucky stars for sure!
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2011, 09:18 PM
sandifer sandifer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot28906 View Post
So what is the story behind the spinning plane in the video?
Pilot encountered a spin mode he had not previously experienced in any aircraft, and was unprepared. Many airplanes will not sustain a flat spin without power, but apparently this one will. Considering he had not had training on different spin modes, he did well to keep his head about him, not panic, and keep trying different things. He recovered by stumbling upon the correct inputs for a flat spin - aileron into the direction of the spin and waiting for a transition back to a normal spin. You can see at the end, just before rotation stopped, that the nose dropped into a more normal spin attitude from which recovery was positive with the normal anti-spin inputs.

Moral of the story, get good spin training if you're going to do spins, and approach with caution airplanes that do not have widely-known spin characteristics. It seems the report is no longer available, but I read the UK accident report on this a few years ago, and there was incredible detail on spin dynamics, what went wrong, interviews from highly experienced pilots in this type, etc. which really shed a lot of light. It was a remarkably educational report. Never seen anything close from an NTSB report.

The wild approach to his actual landing was a result of his inner ear being screwy after so many turns. Once the spin stops, you can be disoriented enough to make situational awareness very difficult. This can be trained for as well.

Last edited by sandifer : 12-15-2011 at 09:23 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2011, 07:33 AM
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grantcarruthers grantcarruthers is offline
 
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Location: STL/3K6
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Would if I owned one, don't do enough acro to justify the purchase yet.

Also wonder how much crazier I'd fly if I had one?
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2011, 10:44 AM
pilot28906 pilot28906 is offline
 
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Thanks for the input on the video. What are the probability of getting into a flat spin in an RV that is built to spec and loaded within limits?
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2011, 10:53 AM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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I wear one during flight testing and aerobatics.
Wasn't offered as an option.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2011, 11:01 AM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
I wear one during flight testing and aerobatics.
Wasn't offered as an option.
For me, Flight Testing/Envelope Expansion....also not a poll option.

Paul
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2011, 11:17 AM
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Flyfalcons Flyfalcons is offline
 
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Did the Rocket guy who broke his control stick and rode it in have a chute?
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2011, 11:31 AM
sandifer sandifer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot28906 View Post
Thanks for the input on the video. What are the probability of getting into a flat spin in an RV that is built to spec and loaded within limits?
Most of my RV spin experience is in the RV-3 that I had, and a little in an RV-6. I've never deliberately tried to get an RV to spin flat (do them in the Pitts, though), and not even sure if an RV would do a real flat spin. Airshow pilots perform them all the time. In this context, you establish one by first entering a normal spin, then applying full out-spin aileron (right aileron with left rudder) and adding power. I know for a fact that an RV will not spin flat simply by spinning power off with out-spin aileron. All this will do is accelerate the rotation. It will not require you to alter the standard recovery technique to stop the spin.

Being able to acheive (accidentally or intentionally) a power-off flat spin is a quirk in the design. Dedicated aerobatic airplanes with neutral characteristics will not do them. For them, a flat spin is a gyroscopically-driven maneuver. It takes power to spin the the prop fast enough to cause a gyroscopic pitch up to the attitude associated with a flat spin. For these airplanes (assuming a CW-turning Lycoming type engine), flat spins only work in one direction - left rudder for upright spins and right rudder for inverted ones. Otherwise power pulls the nose toward the ground.

I have not tested the full spin matrix in RV's (normal, flat, and accelerated spins, both directions, in both upright and inverted modes), but I'm pretty confident that RVs don't have any hidden quirks in some rarely seen spin mode. In RV's, I've only done normal upright spins as well as accelerated spins (using both elevator and aileron) in both directions. I wouldn't worry about getting into a situation similar to the Tipsy Nipper in that flat spin video. Of course, all this assumes proper W&B. That being said, basic spin training is still recommended. Advanced aerobatic spin training that provides experience with ALL the modes that I mention is valuable too, but IMO not necessary if you're just gonna do some basic upright spins in your RV.

Last edited by sandifer : 12-16-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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