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11-29-2011, 08:18 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCat22
Are these "Lithium Iron Phosphate" and "Lithium Ion" the same thing?
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No, they are abolsteuly not! This thread has totally confused the two - and Aircraft Spruce's catalog hasn't helped - they don't even know what they're selling.....
From what I can tell, the Lithium IRON technology has temendous potential, and the batteries are in common use in vehicles such as motorcycles.
Lithium Ion? Still some stability issues....
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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11-29-2011, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DCat22
Are these "Lithium Iron Phosphate" and "Lithium Ion" the same thing?
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As I understand it, lithium-ion is a generic term for lithium chemistry batteries. So, a lithium iron phoshate battery is considerded a lithium ion battery. But, lithium iron phosphate batteries are supposed to be safer than the more common lithium cobalt oxide batteries because it is much harder to get an exothermic reaction that releases oxygen from the iron phoshate as compared to the cobalt oxide. Hence, they are supposed to be more stable and less likely to explode or catch fire if abused. I'm no expert, this is just what I learned when looking into this for another application.
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Chris
RV-8 Wings
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01-30-2012, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: tallahassee FL
Posts: 7
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lithium batt
aerovoltz is same as ballistic motorcycle batteries with a new sticker.
great for starting a motorcycle engine.
Has any one opened one up to look inside ?
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01-30-2012, 05:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: tallahassee FL
Posts: 7
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wow
From Aircraft Spruce customer service;
Good evening Andy,
I have attached the information you needed for the Aerovoltz battery, and on the difference in the motorcycle to the aviation, there is not really any difference. He said they do that to keep track of which group sells better and it is more of a branding thing. Parts are the same. Let us know if you need anything else!
Thank you and have a great evening!
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06-21-2012, 05:17 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Any updates to this product? Anyone bought one?
Just saw Wicks is now carrying them, I too am worried about the Lithium fire stigma.
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Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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06-21-2012, 09:06 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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Lithium batteries
I have been involved with the certification of lithium ion batteries on aircraft and the requirements for a safe installation. I know we are experimental and those dang regs don't apply to us, but there are some real safety concerns. In general lithium ion batteries include all of the current lithium type 2 (rechargable) technologies. They ALL have the potential for fire and explosion. Some just more than others. Lithium iron phosphate chemistries are the only batteries currently approved for certified aircraft as primary batteries used for starting.
In general the hazard is an over discharge comdition, over charge condition or manufacturing fault that leads to overheating and venting of the electrolyte, which is flammable in all cases. In most li-ion chemistries, the electrolyte vents at a temperature that issufficient to auto ignite on contact with air. The iron phosphate electrolyte typically does not auto ignite. It is however rather flammable and will explosivly burn if exposed to an ignition source.
All li-ion batteries require battery charge and discharge control circuits which typically disconnect in the over charging or over discharging, or over temperature conditions to protect the battery from failing and venting electrolyte. They also serve to ensure the cells remain balanced during charge. Batteries used for starting the engine see particularly rigorous duty. Without battery charge/ discharge control they are doomed to a shortened life and potential failure. I have conducted failure testing of iron phosphate chemistries. Think 3 ft diameter fireball.
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06-21-2012, 09:38 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Welcome to VAF!!!!
Dan, welcome to VAF
Good info on the batteries, thanks.
Good to have you aboard.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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06-21-2012, 10:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: tallahassee FL
Posts: 7
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lithium batts
Contact Andy at Aerolithium.com
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06-21-2012, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan
It is however rather flammable and will explosivly burn if exposed to an ignition source.
I have conducted failure testing of iron phosphate chemistries. Think 3 ft diameter fireball.
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Please describe the test conditions/scenarios. You did say that they have been approved, so I assume these scenarios are not likely.
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Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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06-21-2012, 01:44 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Echo Tango
for marine applications (not an aircraft owner yet, but marine stuff is abused in a similar fashion) i'm a huge proponent of AGM batteries, which don't offer much weight-savings but are superior in almost every other aspect. that's about as far as i'm willing to go concerning "new" battery technology. i've been using LiPo long enough in R/C aviation to know how dangerous some of this stuff is.
AGM > *
for me, at least
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For the most part, the horror stories about exploding Lithium Ion batteries are about the LiPo batteries. However, I have not seen any scientific studies/evidence detailing the same dangers of LiFePo batteries. Is there anyone on this forum with real scientific information detailing the differences between the LiPo batteries and the LiFePo batteries as they relate to the potential for overheating, run away heating or susceptibility for explosion?
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