VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Avionics / Interiors / Fiberglass > Glass Cockpit
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #81  
Old 11-29-2011, 04:34 AM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cristianomc View Post
So why is it mandatory for IFR? Why does it exists?
Thank you!
Simple answer, government regulation.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
  #82  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:25 AM
cristianomc's Avatar
cristianomc cristianomc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusBiz View Post
Just as a last note;

When you TSO a device, you are not able to make major alterations to it unless it undergoes certification again.

This means that experimental units are able to keep a breast of developments much faster than TSO solutions. You get more of the latest in experimental gear.

Also on cost. The certification of equipment is expensive. Just the documentation is expensive to produce and maintain. The testing sequence is expensive and so is the re-testing of things like bug fixes. Sometimes the extra cost of TSO equipment is because of all of that ...

....not because of the better quality of manufacturing. Sometimes the quality is the same.
Got it! Thanks!
  #83  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:26 AM
cristianomc's Avatar
cristianomc cristianomc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rleffler View Post
Simple answer, government regulation.
Yeah, and those favors to some guys
  #84  
Old 11-29-2011, 08:47 AM
MCA's Avatar
MCA MCA is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
Do you need the vertical power? It's a bit of money and fuses/breakers work just fine.

schu
With that logic, let's all just put in steam gauges. They work just fine.

If you really believe that the VP-X is the same as fuses, please read up on our web site so you understand what it really does. Don't take that the wrong way, though.
__________________
Marc Ausman
RV-7 980 hours, IO-390, VP-X (sold)
RV-8 (flying a friend's)
Thinking about low and slow backcountry build.

VAF Advertiser - Aircraft Wiring Guide
Book to help with experimental aircraft wiring.
  #85  
Old 11-29-2011, 03:12 PM
akschu's Avatar
akschu akschu is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Alaska
Posts: 292
Default

Marc,

Of course I don't believe that fuses and breakers provide the same level of functionality, the Vertical Power stuff is really nice, and if the original poster can afford it, it's a fantastic upgrade, but I thought he was talking about cutting costs so I figured I would mention it because it's my opinion that an IFR GPS and a fully coupled autopilot have a higher priority in the avionics budget.

cristianomc,

It sounds like you really need a completely certified panel in order to certify for IFR, so perhaps you should focus on getting a nice certified EFIS that can provide your primary instruments and drive the autopilot and just get a skyview for a backup instrument and engine monitor and not bother with hooking it up to drive the autopilot.

What about this setup:

King KFD840 $12000 (EFIS)
Trutrak Digiflight II VSGV - $3,850.00
Sirs NV-2C-4000 Compass (blue lighted) - $225.00
Used Pitot tube $300
Comant Ci 120-400 VOR/LOC/GPS antenna - $997.00
Comant Ci 2480-400 VHF/GPS/XM antenna - $987.00
Comant Ci 105-6 DME/XPDR antenna - $273.95
PS Engineering PMA6000B $1000
Garmin GTX-327 $1800
Garmin 430W $7800
Dynon Skyview $5000
EI SC-5 clock $330

This puts you at $34000 and the entire panel is certified except for the dynon which provides backup PFD, synthetic vision, and an engine monitor.

The idea is that the King PFD will drive the autopilot or the 430W directly, while the skyview gives you a nice backup, synthetic vision, and an engine monitor/fuel computer.

You can add the vertical power back in and have that displayed on the dynon.

All of this said, I have no experience with certified avionics, so this is not a recommendation. You need to call Stein and ask him about the best way to do this.

My goal is just to toss ideas out there for you to look at to help you figure out what works for you.

schu
  #86  
Old 11-29-2011, 03:56 PM
penguin penguin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cristianomc View Post
So why is it mandatory for IFR? Why does it exists?
Thank you!
TSO means that you know the quality (of the hardware and the software) and the manufacturer can demonstrate that it was all designed, built and tested to those standards. Experimental means unverifiable quality (h/w & s/w) and less production records - but what that means in practical terms is crowd certification of EFISs. Because companies are still in business means that their products have proven to meet their customers' needs and are reliable in the field.

Government departments have not been open to crowd certification, and still insist on TSO compliance - I wonder if they will ever recognise the power of the marketplace?

If your authority requires TSOed equipment for IFR certification I would install the absolute minimum of TSOed kit and an AF5600 (but I'm sure other would recommend Dynon products). I would also read the regulations very carefully to find every last wrinkle to avoid a TSOed clock, etc.

Pete
  #87  
Old 11-29-2011, 04:30 PM
akschu's Avatar
akschu akschu is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Houston, Alaska
Posts: 292
Default

I should note that I have found the mainstream experimental products to be equal in quality to certified products and in some cases better (andair), however the documentation for certified avionics is FAR better. Go download an install manual for AFS or dynon then look at the garmin documentation and you will see what I mean.

schu
  #88  
Old 11-29-2011, 05:33 PM
cristianomc's Avatar
cristianomc cristianomc is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akschu View Post
Marc,

Of course I don't believe that fuses and breakers provide the same level of functionality, the Vertical Power stuff is really nice, and if the original poster can afford it, it's a fantastic upgrade, but I thought he was talking about cutting costs so I figured I would mention it because it's my opinion that an IFR GPS and a fully coupled autopilot have a higher priority in the avionics budget.

cristianomc,

It sounds like you really need a completely certified panel in order to certify for IFR, so perhaps you should focus on getting a nice certified EFIS that can provide your primary instruments and drive the autopilot and just get a skyview for a backup instrument and engine monitor and not bother with hooking it up to drive the autopilot.

What about this setup:

King KFD840 $12000 (EFIS)
Trutrak Digiflight II VSGV - $3,850.00
Sirs NV-2C-4000 Compass (blue lighted) - $225.00
Used Pitot tube $300
Comant Ci 120-400 VOR/LOC/GPS antenna - $997.00
Comant Ci 2480-400 VHF/GPS/XM antenna - $987.00
Comant Ci 105-6 DME/XPDR antenna - $273.95
PS Engineering PMA6000B $1000
Garmin GTX-327 $1800
Garmin 430W $7800
Dynon Skyview $5000
EI SC-5 clock $330

This puts you at $34000 and the entire panel is certified except for the dynon which provides backup PFD, synthetic vision, and an engine monitor.

The idea is that the King PFD will drive the autopilot or the 430W directly, while the skyview gives you a nice backup, synthetic vision, and an engine monitor/fuel computer.

You can add the vertical power back in and have that displayed on the dynon.

All of this said, I have no experience with certified avionics, so this is not a recommendation. You need to call Stein and ask him about the best way to do this.

My goal is just to toss ideas out there for you to look at to help you figure out what works for you.

schu
It´s nice, schu!
The only problem is that I don´t like the idea of using EFISes from diferent brands. It´s complicated to handle it. This is why I´m exitating to install 2 AFS-5600 and a Aspen Pro.
About the VP, it´s a great product. I thought to include VP-200 in place of the JPI EDM-930 but it´s discontinued and no longer available, as Marc told me in email.
Stein is also helping me with ideas and he suggested me a G900X, but it´s not TSO and will blow away all my pockets at the same time!

Thank you!

Cristiano

Last edited by cristianomc : 11-29-2011 at 06:28 PM.
  #89  
Old 11-29-2011, 06:59 PM
GusBiz's Avatar
GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 211
Default discontinued???

Quote:
Originally Posted by cristianomc View Post
snip..... I thought to include VP-200 in place of the JPI EDM-930 but it?s discontinued and no longer available, as Marc told me in email.
What!?? is that true? the VP 200 is discontinued? or did I read that incorrectly
__________________
Gus Bisbal

RV7

Obsession only exists when someone else isn't doing it too.
  #90  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:07 PM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GusBiz View Post
What!?? is that true? the VP 200 is discontinued? or did I read that incorrectly
I think there is a mis-understanding. VP just released new code for the VP-X and the VP-200. Perhaps you're thinking about the VP-100?
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Closed Thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:55 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.