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  #1  
Old 11-21-2011, 11:18 PM
Paul Walter Paul Walter is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Horsham, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 83
Default angle valve 200 HP

I am currently looking at an RV4 with a angle valve 200 hp with hartzel cs prop. This combo is very heavey/nose heavey solo and as this prop is in need of replacement i am wondering if anyone has this engine in an RV 4 with a wood or composite cruise pitch prop and if so how it handles for weight. Would this combination be similar to a 180 hp with a metal sensench or cs set up ?. Do the experts think it is a feasible option ?
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2011, 04:57 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Location: Louisville, Ga
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Default Hi Paul

I think that you'd be very happy with a Catto prop, maximized for cruise speed. The airplane will be as fast, if not faster, with a lot of weight off the nose. I had a Catto three-blade on my -6A and many hours in a friend's 160 HP -4 and his two-bladed Catto...a wonderful combination.

Best,
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:17 AM
Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
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Location: KRTS
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Default

I'll bet that thing climbs like a scalded cat!
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:30 AM
airflite1 airflite1 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Greenbush MN
Posts: 56
Default

I have an O-360 Non angle valve, It was also very nose heavy, I tried a few things to help the CG that helped a little but when I switched to the WW RV-200 prop I got the balance I wanted.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2011, 08:40 AM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,891
Default No subsitute?

Paul,

I have done 2 pre-buys on IO-360 A1B6 (angle valve) equipped RV4's one with a Hartzell, the other with a Catto 3 blade. I test flew them both extensively for the customers and reported the following:

Aircraft A (Hartzell) had a 28 lb concorde aircraft battery installed in the baggage compartment lightweight starter/alt, vacuum system, full IFR. It flew very nose-heavy solo with 1/2 fuel. The perfect RV4 CG occurs with a 50lb tail-wheel weight in level flight attitude. This one had 28 lbs. At full aft trim and 60 knots it required 5-8 lbs of aft stick pressure to hold level flight. It cruised at 200 MPH indicated at 24 squared 11GPH.

Aircraft B (Catto) weighed almost 100 lbs less due to an Odessey PC625 battery (center console), no interior, minimum panel and one coat of light grey paint. It used one of Air Tec's Lexus starters (same as mine) and a B&C mini alt on the accessory case. Level flight Tailwheel weight was 48 lbs. It's performance was stellar, nearly equal to my 290HP HR2 on takeoff. Cruise was at normal RV4 VNE 210 MPH. However, the flying qualities were much better balanced and was much smoother in-flight.

The A1B6 is a tight squeeze under the cowl but if it was engineered well, no worries. All things considered, it's a strong engine, counterbalanced crankshaft, heavy duty everything (Mooney ordered it originally for the 201) and lots in service. The big single mag isn't a problem if you install a flywheel pickup electronic ignition, then you have 1/2 mag for redundancy if the other half breaks away from home. If you can buy it right, go for it. Check the lower Rudder for cracks, elevator as well. Make sure the lower engine mount longerons aren't cracked, something I see alot on big engine RV's. There are many ways to lighten it up, email me offline if I can help.

Questions?
Smokey
smokyray@rocketmail.com

PS:My personal favorite airplane was the A model F16, lighter weight nose.The C has much more thrust, cool avionics and digital flight controls and a better Combat machine for today's environment. For me however it boils down to which one flies better when you "sling it around under G". That applies here too.

Last edited by smokyray : 11-22-2011 at 09:25 AM.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:16 AM
RV Jerry RV Jerry is offline
 
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Location: Chino, CA
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Default

I BOUGHT A RV-4 200 HP C/S PROP ORIGINALY BUILD BY JOHN HARMON I FLEW IT A COUPLE OF YEARS AND LOVED IT (HAVE PERSONALLY OWNED 9RV'S ) THE PLANE WAS A LITTLE NOSE HEAVY BUT WAS VERY EASY TO LAND ESPECIALLY WITH A PASSENGER I PERSONALLY WOULD NOT PUT A FIXED PITCH PROP ON NEXT TO MY HR2 IT WAS MY FAVORITE
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2011, 09:56 AM
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ChrisF16 ChrisF16 is offline
 
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Location: San Antonio, TX
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Default

@Smoky: +1 on the F-16 A model! Especially the Block 10 small tail widow maker! YEE - HA!

Pardon the interruption. Now back to your regularly scheduled RV-4 thread...
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:13 AM
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Russ McCutcheon Russ McCutcheon is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA USA
Posts: 908
Default Depends??

Mine with IO-360 A1A, Sky Dynamics cold air intake, Sky Dynamics magnesium oil sump, light weight starter, Odyssey 680 battery and MTV 15 B composite CS prop and has an empty CG of 59.69? and weighs 1065Lbs. As to what Smoky mentioned the tail wheel ways 50Lbs in level.

Some of these engines have balancing weights on the crank shaft witch does not help, the A1A does not. My -4 is balanced perfectly as it is. The Builder went to considerable expense to make this balance by taking weight out of the engine/prop installation, a Hartzell would not be an option, however I would also not consider a fixed prop.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2011, 10:38 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Location: 08A
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ McCutcheon View Post
Some of these engines have balancing weights on the crank shaft witch does not help, the A1A does not.
I wouldn't dismiss them that quickly. Those "balance weights" are pendulum absorbers. They cancel crankshaft torsional vibration at their tuned orders, and thus are very desirable with certain propellers.
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2011, 11:09 AM
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Russ McCutcheon Russ McCutcheon is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I wouldn't dismiss them that quickly. Those "balance weights" are pendulum absorbers. They cancel crankshaft torsional vibration at their tuned orders, and thus are very desirable with certain propellers.
Hi Dan,

You miss understand, we are talking about obtaining the proper C of G, for this installation more weight is adverse, I was only speaking in terms of C of G, otherwise I’m sure the counter balanced engines are very good, the IO-360 A1A was specifically chosen for my -4 because it does not have these "absorbers" and as such is lighter weight.
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Last edited by Russ McCutcheon : 11-22-2011 at 11:22 AM.
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