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  #11  
Old 11-20-2011, 10:51 AM
RV7ator RV7ator is offline
 
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The issue is touch screens, not technologies in general.

Stein and I will engage in a round of sarcasm (Incoming!). "Gee, Stein, I wonder why Garmin kept buttons and knobs for critical functions? And touch screens aren't scary. They're maddening."

The boxes are simply nav/coms and gps receivers. No new technology there, with some added interface tricks. (Yeah, they improve, like getting rid of tubes for transistors. But the primary purpose and function remain the same.) What keeps changing is the user interface and now adding touch screens - which introduced the ergonomic question that started this thread.

The substantial and useful change with the 7 and 5XX Garmins is the "home" menu structure. You don't even need to crack the user manual to swiftly figure out how to use them. Not so with the older stuff. You get callouses working the older navigators' buttons and knobs. The newer operating systems combined with less button pushing and knob twisting are good. Reliance on a touch screen is foolhardy. Even VFR.

Recently I spent 20 minutes at maneuvering speed for moderate to severe. I needed the autopilot to keep the -7 upright while trying to punch in a "direct to" on a 696. Got it done in maybe 15 seconds. The touch screen with me (an iPad in this case) was utterly unusable. I know the 510 would have been next to impossible from my experience with it in even light turbulence.

Touch screens? No, thanks. Though acceptable 95% of the time, I don't want an interface that becomes increasingly difficult to use in synch with increasing piloting difficultly. That's backasswards.

John Siebold
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2011, 10:56 AM
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apkp777 apkp777 is offline
 
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The 750 has a Direct To button, although you can access the function via touch screen as well. The same is true of the radio tuning knob. I have the IPAD and 510, although touch screen is not perfect, in some turbulence my SL30 can be hard to dial in also. With many of the devices you can set everything up while on the ground and do little tapping in flight. I think whether we like it or not, MFGrs are going touch screen more and more. I am sure it'll be "thought screen" before too long.
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  #13  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:33 PM
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N546RV N546RV is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777 View Post
I am sure it'll be "thought screen" before too long.
That sounds like a truly dangerous feature, particularly if your spouse/SO happens to be in the plane with you...

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  #14  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:21 PM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7ator View Post
The issue is touch screens, not technologies in general.

........
Reliance on a touch screen is foolhardy. Even VFR.

Recently I spent 20 minutes at maneuvering speed for moderate to severe. I needed the autopilot to keep the -7 upright while trying to punch in a "direct to" on a 696. Got it done in maybe 15 seconds. The touch screen with me (an iPad in this case) was utterly unusable. I know the 510 would have been next to impossible from my experience with it in even light turbulence.

Touch screens? No, thanks. Though acceptable 95% of the time, I don't want an interface that becomes increasingly difficult to use in synch with increasing piloting difficultly. That's backasswards.

John Siebold
While I do agree that turbulence will make things increasingly difficult, I would submit that if it's bad enough to make a GTN hard to use it'll be as hard or harder to use the older stuff. If the bumps are terribly bad like John's example about not being able to hang onto an engine control, it won't matter what you're using for avionics - it'll be tough. The GTN's are one of those things you just gotta go fly because you absolutely can't compare it to an Ipad, Aera or 696.

My opinion is no better than the next guys, but I'd encourage some time with the actual boxes in question as to part of the opining process. For what it's worth, from what I see most of the positive opinions in this thread about the GTN's come from those who've used them and most of the negative opinions come from those who haven't. You'll notice that the majority of those who've actually own or fly the boxes in question really like them (some don't and some won't), but by and large the majority do. Several of the people commenting in this thread positively about the GTN's are guys that fly a lot, and also a lot of actual IFR (some with things that make it even more difficult like NVG's or full flight suits/gloves) or flying in heliflingers, warbirds, etc.

Like I said before, some of the discussions and personal opinions on whether touchscreens belong in a cockpit are a bit of a moot point because (like EFISes, Autopilots, SVT, traffic systems, etc..) it's the way the world is going whether we individually like it or not - Avidyne, Garmin, Collins, Honeywell, L-3, Barco, Universal, Boeing, Airbus, Lockheed, Esterline, Cessna, Bombardier, Gulfstream and the US military all say so. Heck, I imagine it won't be too many years before voice recognition surpasses touchscreens anyway...

Just my spirited & awnry two cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

Cheers,
Stein

Last edited by SteinAir : 11-20-2011 at 04:48 PM. Reason: Added smiley face!
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:29 PM
Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
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Touch screens are awesome once you get used to them. Don't worry about the turbulence myth, learn to anchor your fingers it's a nonissue.

I too held this myth as belief until I actually used them.
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  #16  
Old 11-20-2011, 05:54 PM
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GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir View Post
snip..... I imagine it won't be too many years before voice recognition surpasses touchscreens anyway...
With the new iphone I don't even type an SMS any more. I just hit the Siri button,
"SMS Caroline"
"When will you be home? and can you make sure that you ring my parents to tell them when we are coming over"

All that while I am driving with two hands on the wheel looking ahead.

I think that will be part of the touch screen in less than two years.

On top of that annunciations based on locations, contextual reminders at critical points of flight, all sorts of things that all this "I can't put my finger on it" stuff will just surpass quicker than you can say "What? Steve Jobs died?"
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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LeeM_2000 LeeM_2000 is offline
 
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I flew a 2.6 in moderate-to-severe turbulence on Saturday with a GTN 650 and an Aera 796. I had no issues at all with either touch screen. I actually prefer the touch screen to buttons/knobs for the most part. Also, the menu structure with PC-like shortcuts is far more intuitive to me than the older page-based stuff.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2011, 08:51 PM
Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeM_2000 View Post
I flew a 2.6 in moderate-to-severe turbulence on Saturday with a GTN 650 and an Aera 796. I had no issues at all with either touch screen. I actually prefer the touch screen to buttons/knobs for the most part. Also, the menu structure with PC-like shortcuts is far more intuitive to me than the older page-based stuff.
That was one of the hardest parts of teaching GPS approaches in my CFI days was getting people to under stand the "chapter>page" layout of the gps. Especially in the KLN's. Good unit though once you understood it.
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