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11-13-2011, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 76
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Tail Wheel vs. Nose Wheel Numbers
From http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...f_Inquiry.aspx
RV-6 1133
RV-6A 1068
RV-7 434
RV-7A 649
RV-8 919
RV-8A 254
RV-9 60
RV-9A 504
The total split is surprisingly close to even. I'm sure the numbers are not perfect, but, to coin a phrase, they are close enough for government work.
__________________
Charlie
RV-7A
Canton, MI
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11-13-2011, 08:09 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
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Over the last year, there have been 34 additional accidents added to the NTSB database. Somehow, my original search missed 11. The total number from 1/1/2000 to present shows 345.
Last edited by LeeM_2000 : 11-13-2011 at 08:24 PM.
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11-13-2011, 08:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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BTW, does the NTSB even record a ground loop or minor damage?
A friend had a hard landing in his -9A, the nose gear tucked under and he had a prop strike. This happened at a controlled airport and no report was ever filed.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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11-13-2011, 08:48 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
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Only substantial damage or fatalities are reported to the NTSB. There is no way to count minor accidents.
See CFR Title 49 Part 830 for more info.
Last edited by LeeM_2000 : 11-13-2011 at 08:50 PM.
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11-13-2011, 10:16 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
Posts: 2,416
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the numbers game.....hard to see thru the fog!
I appreciate all these numbers for what they are...indicators, food for thought, or action?
but still, each flight is a wildly varied risk buffet.
It sounds like if I lose an engine, and dead-stick perfectly into a hay field, it's pretty likely I'll flip my -9a, and then a 34% chance I'll die?????
I don't think I'd ever go up if I really believed that!
how does that compare to the classic low-time VFR jock ( me) on a cross-country, into deteriorating weather etc. etc. Could end with CFIT, or an off-field precautionary landing that ends with the same fatal result.
Of more concern is that these numbers don't, and likely never will, tell us that plane A is more dangerous than B, when piloted by experience level C, on mission D,E, F.
If it were possible to quantify, we could avoid the 'higher-risk scenarios', and our survival rates would go up, and insurance rates down.
I'd love to see those numbers, but ain't gonna hold my breath.
__________________
Perry Y.
RV-9a - SOLD!....
Lake Country, BC
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11-14-2011, 04:29 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunt0
From http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinqu...f_Inquiry.aspx
RV-6 1133
RV-6A 1068
RV-7 434
RV-7A 649
RV-8 919
RV-8A 254
RV-9 60
RV-9A 504
The total split is surprisingly close to even. I'm sure the numbers are not perfect, but, to coin a phrase, they are close enough for government work.
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Add in the 271 RV-3s and 1341 RV-4s and the split seems to favour taildraggers. The number of -10s and -12s are much smaller. The RV-3 and -4 data came from Van's First Flight page, and was current as of 11 Nov 2011.
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11-14-2011, 07:02 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963
I appreciate all these numbers for what they are...indicators, food for thought, or action?
but still, each flight is a wildly varied risk buffet.
It sounds like if I lose an engine, and dead-stick perfectly into a hay field, it's pretty likely I'll flip my -9a, and then a 34% chance I'll die?????
I don't think I'd ever go up if I really believed that!
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It seems you are mixing probabilities with basic stats. We haven't calculated any probabilities. All I did was count the accidents, read all the reports, and from the narratives determine which ones were doink-overs. I gave percentages based only on that sampling, nothing more. I think I figured that out of that sample, only 1% of the fatality accidents were doink-overs.
Past performance does not guarantee future results. 
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11-14-2011, 08:53 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 387
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Bottom Lines
Bottom Lines
Based on my previous, perilous treks into RV nosewheel vs. tailwheel territory, here are some objective "bottom lines" I have learned (the hard way!):
Both RV models are SAFE.
About 7,000 RVs, roughly half nosewheels and half tailwheels, are flying with NO DAMAGE HISTORY!
For RVs, regardless of model, the vast majority of accidents/incidents are pilot error (proficiency, judgment, skill). If you are seriously interested in safety, look in the mirror.
For the tailwheel RVs, if you have over 100 hours of tailwheel time, some of it recent, you should be "good to go."
For the nosewheel RVs, if you are proficient in soft field operations, particularly in an aircraft with a non-damped, non-steerable nosewheel, you should be "good to go."
For the nosewheel RVs, two recent modifications (Van's and Anti-Splat) have improved the nosewheel's tolerance for rougher-than-expected operations.
Trying to determine relative RV model safety from reported statistics is a meaningless exercise!
Happy RV Flying to All (even the biased tailwheel people!).
Bill Palmer 
RV-8A Finishing Kit
Last edited by Bill Palmer : 11-14-2011 at 09:16 AM.
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11-14-2011, 11:48 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: KS
Posts: 110
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Meaningless exercise?
Accident stats have a long and storied history of driving design and purchase decisions; some good and some not so good. How do you know the RV design is even safe, if you put no stock in accident numbers? 
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11-14-2011, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Palmer
<snip>
For RVs, regardless of model, the vast majority of accidents/incidents are pilot error (proficiency, judgment, skill). If you are seriously interested in safety, look in the mirror.
Bill Palmer 
RV-8A Finishing Kit
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Thank you Bill!
John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
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