VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:38 AM
mikerkba mikerkba is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ely, Nevada
Posts: 223
Default Alaska, without Canada. Legal?

I'm planning a trip to Alaska for next May or June. Is there any reason one cannot overfly Canada totally, and omit the passenger preclearance/customs/fees stuff. A route from Bellingham, Washington, to Ketchikan, AK is 518 nm direct, and is 551 nm via recent ATC filed routes (per Foreflight).

Of course, you could be vulnerable to an unexpected stop, and winds can lengthen that trip. Right now, foreflight shows a 37 knot headwind at 9,000 and 51 knots headwind at 15,000. This yields 36 and 41 gallon fuel burns, respectively, for my 7A which carries 50+ gallons useable. Presumably, May or June winds, carefully selected for departure time, would make the trip well within range of most RVs.

So, leaving aside for the moment the good operational and routing advice you have, what is the legality of giving the USCS/CBP/DHS/NavCanada bureaucracy the ....., lets say, "brushoff," and simply overflying our neighbor to the north?
__________________
Mike Coster
BUILDER: N92MB RV7A (A/W 3/2009) - Sold
ADOPTED/reworked: N4032Q RV8A (8/2017)
Building: S-21 Outback/Titan, tail and cockpit mated (3/2020)
KELY/Ely, NV
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-13-2011, 10:44 AM
Geico266's Avatar
Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huskerland, USA
Posts: 5,862
Default

As long as you don't land in Canada I am pretty sure you are good to go. No need to go through customs, but I would use flight following so there are no surprises when you land in the US.

My experience having flown from Nebraska to Vermont / Maine and crossed Canadian Airspace both ways is I just contacted Canada after leaving US flight following. They were more than helpful and accommodating, eh! Basically, US ATC turned me over to VFR squawking 1200 as I entered Canadian airspace. I then contacted Canada and stayed with them until they handed me back over to US ATC. Piece of cake.

If you land be prepared to go through customs in Canada, and when you "return" to the US. Best to have all documentation ready, just in case. Weather could force you to land also. Hugging the coast fog and weather is a real possibility.
__________________
RV-7 : In the hangar
RV-10 : In the hangar
RV-12 : Built and sold
RV-44 : 4 place helicopter on order.

Last edited by Geico266 : 11-13-2011 at 12:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:01 AM
DanBaier's Avatar
DanBaier DanBaier is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 669
Default

Legal. May have to make that run at low level (could impact endurance not being able to lean mixture).

See http://www.alaska.faa.gov/
__________________
RV7A (N7101) - Flying 10/2008
CFI- SE/ME/Inst
A&P
KC2ZEL
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:07 AM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geico266 View Post
As long as you don't land in Canada I am pretty sure you are good to go. No need to go through customs, but I would use flight following so there are no surprises when you land in the US.

.....
Is there any Flight Following in that area of Canada?

There wasn't much in the Rockies...
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:12 AM
mikerkba mikerkba is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ely, Nevada
Posts: 223
Default Overflights - and more paperwork.

Larry: Thanks. I, too, fly over a piece of Canada on the way westward over Cleveland going to Detroit, and this Bellingham to Ketchikan flight seems the same from a regulatory angle. Wasn't sure.

I carry the one page, downloadable Transport Canada form that we are supposed to have in our plane to take it over Canada, even if not landing foreign. No fee, no formalities-- apparently it serves only to remind you of the requirements of flying your experimental in Canada. I have no idea what the enforcement mechanism or penalty is.

See: http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...ation-2946.htm
__________________
Mike Coster
BUILDER: N92MB RV7A (A/W 3/2009) - Sold
ADOPTED/reworked: N4032Q RV8A (8/2017)
Building: S-21 Outback/Titan, tail and cockpit mated (3/2020)
KELY/Ely, NV
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:19 AM
mikerkba mikerkba is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ely, Nevada
Posts: 223
Default Altitude is our friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
Is there any Flight Following in that area of Canada?

There wasn't much in the Rockies...
Just fly higher, Gil. There is flight following over much of the mountain west, but you frequently have to be above 15K. At 12.5 or higher here in Ely. FYI: the canadian government site suggests that there is prety good rada coverage along the western routes up to AK, and an air-to-air frequency recommended for the whole route, and mandatory is some areas.

I do think a VFR flight plan and flight following would smooth the arrival, particularly if you choose NOT to use a port of entry airport, which I also don't think you'd have to use.

God help the bandit that greets me with an M-16 after landing somewhere. I don't care where that is, DC, Bellingham, or Ely, it ain't right. It could get ugly.
__________________
Mike Coster
BUILDER: N92MB RV7A (A/W 3/2009) - Sold
ADOPTED/reworked: N4032Q RV8A (8/2017)
Building: S-21 Outback/Titan, tail and cockpit mated (3/2020)
KELY/Ely, NV
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:24 AM
Flyfalcons's Avatar
Flyfalcons Flyfalcons is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Bonney Lake, WA
Posts: 295
Default

The coastal route up to Ketchikan is nothing to take lightly. If you go VFR, you'll be going through areas where there is no weather reporting at all. Going IFR will put you at altitudes where icing is a very real concern. I've flown the BC coast for 11 years in Dehavilland Beavers, and currently fly Seattle to SE Alaska in Lears. It is not something I'd want to try nonstop in an RV.
__________________
Ryan Winslow
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:37 AM
SmilingJack's Avatar
SmilingJack SmilingJack is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hilton Head Island
Posts: 1,089
Default EAPIS

I would really check the EAPIS rules! I pretty sure you have to tell them you are leaving and arriving back at a specified point.
__________________
John Mastro
RV-8
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-13-2011, 11:40 AM
GregM GregM is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oak Ridge,Tn
Posts: 137
Default

Mike, I've been planning and dreaming essentially the same route to Alaska when my plane is done. I have lived in Alaska and have family there. I have been through Ketchikan and Juneau on various occasions. The weather in May might be a little iffy as it is still early in the season. June and July is the best time with a lot more stable air mass. The winds will be a lot calmer than they are now. Pulling back the power to sightsee will give you plenty of range. The biggest concern will be fog and low ceilings on other than stellar days. Just allow for idle days waiting for weather to improve and you wont be disappointed. There is a lot more risk in this route compared to the Canadian routes. Although, its just as risky as flying to the Bahama's I suppose. I have noticed that the Canadian ADIZ is directly in line between Prince Rupert and Ketchikan. Might have to dogleg a little if you dont have the 12 inch numbers. I do have a question for other's that have overflown Canadian airspace. Do they still charge you for talking to them? Good luck and post a trip report if you do make the trip.
__________________
Greg Morgan, A&P
RV-8A, Phase 1 @ KDKX &
TN08
Oak Ridge,TN
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-13-2011, 12:00 PM
DanBaier's Avatar
DanBaier DanBaier is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingJack View Post
check the EAPIS rules
"...private aircraft APIS regulations do not apply to overflights of foreign airspace, provided the private aircraft departs and arrives in the U.S. and does not land at a foreign port...." (http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...apis_guide.pdf)

The last I knew, you do have to file a flight plan and indicate "overflight" in the remarks section. If you do have to make an unplanned stop, things could become complex in a hurry.
__________________
RV7A (N7101) - Flying 10/2008
CFI- SE/ME/Inst
A&P
KC2ZEL
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.