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  #11  
Old 10-31-2011, 12:10 PM
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RVbySDI RVbySDI is offline
 
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Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
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I have refrained from making comments about my experience last spring at SnF after my plane was damaged in the tornado. But hearing about how SnF is now dealing with those who had damaged airplanes I can no longer keep quiet.

I was much more fortunate than Bob or others, including my friends who had flown their Alon Ercoupe down having never been to SnF before. They arrived on Wednesday afternoon only to have their plane flipped and destroyed on Thursday. They too were kicked out of the area. They were not allowed into the grounds until sometime Friday morning after many hours of being shuffled around from one gate to the next where they were not allowed to enter the grounds. When they were finally able to get in they went to where their plane was parked to find it gone. No one could tell them where their plane was. After an hour or so they were able to track down where it had been moved. Their airplane had been moved without their permission just as many others had. They too received a bill for the involuntary moving of their airplane.

My experience was not as drastic but still disheartening. I have many kudos to give out to my fellow RV'ers as many of you came to my aid. Of special appreciation, I have to mention Victor Finch. Through this forum I was able to get in contact with him. Vic is building a 9 at Zephyr Hills, FL. My left flap was damaged. He had a completed flap that he carried out to my airplane Friday morning. He gave it to me to fly home with, which I did. He simply said, "send it back to me when you are done." Guys like that make everything right in the world even though everything around you is falling apart.

Sadly, I cannot say as much for how I was treated by the SnF organization. Although there were individual volunteers who went out of their way to assist me, overall, I was met with obstacles and road blocks when I attempted to contact an SnF representative to get something resolved concerning my damaged airplane. The organization as a whole was of little help. In fact, really, in many instances they created road blocks and obstacles that made it difficult for me to deal with my repairs.

In spite of what happened, since returning home and getting my airplane back to new again, I was willing to just let all of my bad experiences fade into the past. However, last week after my friend informed me of the letter and bill he received and I saw this thread, those bad experiences came rushing back.

Last spring's trip was our first flight in our brand new airplane into SnF. It also was our last. My wife has vowed to never fly back to SnF again. Maybe we will attend in the future but if we do we will fly commercial. Mother nature is one thing and we have little recourse but to deal with it the best we can. However, when one has to also deal with hassles created by mankind, we do have some choices that can remedy that interaction.

My wife and I were very upset with the treatment we received by SnF. We enjoy many aspects of going to Florida during SnF. Most of these have nothing to do with SnF. Perhaps we will now find ourselves going to Florida just to enjoy those other adventures and leave SnF for others. We have little desire to deal with more bad experiences like those from last spring.
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  #12  
Old 10-31-2011, 01:10 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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If it weren't for the friends I get to see and hang out with for the week, I would never return.

There are a lot of good people there that volunteer, but its nowhere what it once was, and that is due to some management decisions.

Just to give you an idea of the sort of things that go on there. Back in 08 a friend of mine had a bunch of avionics stolen by a known aircraft thief the week before SNF. On a hunch my friend, being a police officer, beelined it down there thinking this guy was going to unload his stuff quickly at the flymart and actually found said thief with his van full of stolen aircraft parts in the campground. Long story short he was arrested and they found his Garmin 430 in his van. The Lakeland PD swat team is based on the airport and they assisted my friend in the investigation. They went back to the flymart to advise them that this guy's stuff was all likely stolen, and (unsurprisingly) the guy in charge of the flymart actually refused to take his stuff off the tables without a warrant. There were other events in this whole escapade where SNF officials were completely uncooperative until threatened.

Now I get this letter 7 months later. Seems to me they would have gotten invoiced within 30 days of the cleanup. So I'm a bit skeptical about what has transpired with the cleanup.
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Last edited by rocketbob : 10-31-2011 at 01:13 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-31-2011, 01:12 PM
Phlyan Pan Phlyan Pan is offline
 
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Location: Rochester, NY
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Sounds like someone needs to press charges for theft of your aircraft and the fuel that was in it. Just because they returned the aircraft to you 6 hours later doesn't mean they didn't steal it.

If I take my neighbor's car without his permission and then return it to him the next day I still get charged with auto theft.
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  #14  
Old 10-31-2011, 01:49 PM
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I think I'd first have a lawyer send a letter asking for the actual receipts, itemized billing, and an accounting of the fuel removed and the credit (not) applied to my bill for the fuel taken, etc, etc...along with verifying the legalities that applied in that particular case/location.

If, from what I've read, SnF acted differently...I wouldn't do any of that though. Oh, well.
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:17 PM
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Flyfalcons Flyfalcons is offline
 
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Screw them, I'd throw the bill straight into the garbage.
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  #16  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:45 PM
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Geico266 Geico266 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
Screw them, I'd throw the bill straight into the garbage.
Right answer.
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  #17  
Old 10-31-2011, 02:51 PM
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i am biting my tongue on this one!!!!!!!
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  #18  
Old 10-31-2011, 03:07 PM
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N282S N282S is offline
 
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Default Maybe they don't want us.

I didn?t go to SnF. Never have. I?ve been to Oshkosh Imeanairventure several times. There is a lot at Osh that annoys me and I?m sure I would find a lot at SnF that annoys me, like flying my showplane to a showplane event and then being charged an admission fee to see showplanes.

But, SnF?
I?m trying hard to be objective. I used to be in a KC-135 tanker unit. If they had a fuel spill, whether a class A, B or C, everything came to a halt until the spill was removed from the ground and the leak repaired. You would not believe the supplies, equipment and procedures that are in place to immediately remedy a fuel spill. And I?m talking about a fuel spill which wets no more than a two foot diameter area on the ramp. It makes the EPA peeps go crazy, and they fine the snot out of anyone be it an ANG unit, activity duty unit, or civilian unit, caught spilling petroleum on the ground. I want to believe this is why fuel was removed from aircraft (not to mention a fire hazard!). I doubt SnF had adequate security to ensure the airplanes would not be looted or damaged further by onlookers. So, is this why they were moved? I?m sure SnF accepts risk and responsibility any time any aircraft is on their property and they do what they can to minimize that risk. Every time I fly I accept a certain amount of risk. We all do and most of us try to manage it. But, like I said, I wasn?t there.

You can bet they talked to their lawyers before the letters were sent
There is a cost, and someone is going to pay. Insurance companies and the ?government? are generally whom we seek first for relief. And, if they don?t ante-up then someone else will eat the costs.

SnF already stated they are losing thousands. Maybe they ought to lose a little more, maybe they?ve lost enough. I do know they lost future admission fees from me.
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  #19  
Old 10-31-2011, 04:36 PM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
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I can see why they removed the fuel and the debris, including planes-- for the safety of people and environment. We flipped our J230 back over right away to minimize fuel spillage, but that's because the Civil Air Patrol was right there to help us do it. What ticks me off is, Sun n Fun kicked us all out, and did not give anyone the option to "take responsibility" for securing their own aircraft, booths, whatever. If cleanup was truly the "owner's individual responsibility" as stated by SnF's insurance company in the AvWeb article, then at least give us the option to stay with our property until it's secured without being worried about getting hauled off in handcuffs-- which is what will happen to me if this ever happens (again ) to my personal airplane, since we don't typically pack razor-wire in our camping gear.

I guess the flip side is, the EPA could then fine all of us for "letting" our planes flip over and spill fuel. Can they do that in a natural disaster?

I don't know... I just wish owners had been given the option to stay and help clean up, to accept the cost of the salvage people if necessary, and to direct how workers treated their airplanes and where they put them.
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2011, 05:31 PM
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DanBaier DanBaier is offline
 
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Default Ugh!

What they did is undoubtedly covered in the fine print.

But it seems an insane way to treat the fly-in population. Sure makes you think twice about whether it's worth going.

Dan
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