Rudder Trailing Edge Without ProSeal

attackpilot · #1 07-05-2006, 12:12 PM

I am wondering if anyone who has built a RV with the rudder trailing edge as it is on the -7, -9, -10 and possibly others have done so without ProSeal, epoxy, or any other type of bonding agent?

The reason I ask is that I just completed my RV-10 rudder without it. I had applied it, but quickly realized that I had not yet countersunk the wedge. So I removed it with acetone. Like an idiot, I did not want to wait for another shipment of tank sealant from Vans or anyone else. I managed to rivet the rudder trailing edge without having bows or hooks. At the time, I thought I did a good job, but now I am reconsidering.

I have talked to the technical department from Vans and got "I don't know, we have always used sealant on that type of trailing edge." Later, I got chastised about rushing. He was completely right of course. He said that it would probably be ok, but didn't know how it was going to be a few years down the road.

So, has anyone else done this, and if so, has anyone had any problems with it down the road?

Thanks,

Joe Hutchison
RV-10 Tail Kit

bullojm1 · #2 07-05-2006, 01:10 PM

Joe,
I think I recall Tom Emery saying that he doesn't use proseal when he does his rudder TE's when I took his RV builders class. His contact information is on his website, http://www.wparvbuilders.nstemp.com/.

Tom Maxwell · #3 07-05-2006, 01:28 PM

The folks at the Alexander Technical Center do not use any kind of sealant either. They have built over 200 tailkits so I guess they feel comfortable doing it the way they are doing it. I don't believe the sealant really provides much structural strength, maybe it does, but is there to keep things from sliding around while riveting. If you have a straight edge and it is riveted tightly, I vote for good to go.

N916K · #4 07-05-2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attackpilot

I am wondering if anyone who has built a RV with the rudder trailing edge as it is on the -7, -9, -10 and possibly others have done so without ProSeal, epoxy, or any other type of bonding agent?

I built my 9 without using proseal on the trailing edges. At the time Van's kept flip flopping around about what to do with the trailing edges.

If I did it over again I would use a very thin layer of proseal. It's easy to built a nice straight trailing edge with any adhesive but it is very easy to bend the trailing edge that's not glued together. The skin will buckle very easily if you try to bend the trailing edge. With a thin layer of proseal the skin will stay attached to the wedge and provide quite a bit more strength.

Auburntsts · #5 07-05-2006, 07:29 PM

I believe Mike Howe, www.etigerr.com/RV10HomePage.htm, and Tim Olson, www.myrv10.com, both built their -10 rudder and elevator trailing edges without bonding by using a long piece of steel angle as a full length back rivet plate mounted to their work benches.

DGlaeser · #6 07-05-2006, 09:28 PM

I helped my son rivet his rudder TE (1.5 years ago) and we did it without any bonding. With 2 of us, it wasn't difficult, and it came out very straight. When I did mine about a year ago, I used JBWeld because I didn't have any help (my son is in ABQ, I'm near DET).

RScott · #7 07-05-2006, 11:33 PM

I used JB Weld on my rudder and nothing on my elevators. Too cheap to buy the Proseal and have it expire before I could use it on fuel tanks.

When I took clecoes out of the rudder to rivet, it made popping sounds and I suspect it was losing it's bond in places. It came out reasonbly straight, though not perfect.

On the elevators, I used a piece of 2 X 2 X 1/4 steel angle, sanded smooth on my belt sander. I blocked the skin up on 1/4 inch materal so it was even with the surface of the angle stock. The angle stock acted as a back rivet plate. The elevators came out about the same as the rudder. I have seen better and worse rudders and elevators, some built with Proseal and some without. The guy who built the best ones I have seen is the guy who recommended the JB Weld to me.

flydjd · #8 07-06-2006, 01:55 AM

Hi from Europe,

On my 7A I had some time expired proseal and when I asked Van's about using this I was told it should be OK even though it was well outside the expiry date....

however they also said that it wasn't really necessary as it was only used as an aid to keep every in place whilst riveting. So I did it without - seems OK but not yet approved by my German Tech. counsellor.

(BTW since then I have received some dubious advice from Van's tech help re QB installed fuel tank bolt torque setting - on one wing they were double the correct setting and initially an un-named source said it wasn't important ! - they had never known a bolt fail - that got an instant reply from me and then Scott Risan got involved and sent replacement bolts out straight away)

So bottom line is you are the Builder !!!!!!!!

jcoloccia · #9 07-06-2006, 09:45 AM

I built 2 rudders (don't ask). The first I built with no pro-seal, and the 2nd with proseal.

The first came out reasonably straight...not perfect, but certainly not anywhere near the worst I've seen...definately flyable.

The second came out very straight. I have about 1/10" (maybe a bit more) variation across the whole thing.

Okay, so big deal...the second one is straighter. Here's the interesting part, though. The one WITH the proseal is significantly stiffer at the trailing edge. There is simply no flex at all at the trailing edge. The first one is a little bit floppy, i.e. if I push on it enough, it will start to flex and seperate SLIGHTLY, especially at the ends.

Is this important? No, I don't think so. Where I can see it making a difference is POSSIBLY (maybe) after painting, the one without the proseal might maybe flex enough to possibly cause some chipping? I dunno. I personally just like the feel of my prosealed one better, and if I had to do it again I would use proseal.

Just one man's totally uninformed, gut feel opinion.

RScott · #10 07-08-2006, 09:56 PM

Just saw an RV-9A at Arlington yesterday with the straightest TE's on all the control surfaces I have seen. Also, they had a relatively sharp edge at the back, rather than the 2 edges we usually see.

Builder says they bent the edges inward a little before riveting.

Also, they didn't use Proseal & used the angle iron method for riveting.