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  #41  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:13 AM
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flion flion is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777 View Post
Call me old fashioned, naive or deceived, but I put my faith in Jesus! Whether I live or die, HE is my Shepard! There is a French proverb which says "a clean conscience is softer than a fresh pillow". Works for me.
Yes, yes, but does He do your preflight or flight planning? "God helps those who help themselves." I'm not casting religious aspersions here. I'm just saying my prayer tends not to be "God help me" but rather "Lord, don't let me screw up."
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  #42  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:37 AM
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Jimboscr Jimboscr is offline
 
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Location: Adelaide South Australia, Australia
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Default We all need a realistic awareness

Everyone who flies tends to fit into the "high achiever / independent thinker / adventurer" type mould. Most of us like the challenge and rigor of aviation. However we all realise that it is a pursuit that has its risks, it is not a humans ?natural? environment. We have, by the use of our intellect, found a way to do something we have not evolved to do. As a result it is inherently dangerous, as is every activity that we have "invented?. This can include thing as basic as horse riding. How many people are killed and maimed in accidents with horses every year? Driving a car or motor bike as well as most industrial processes have massive risks. Have you ever seen a blast furnace being "tapped"? I have and it?s b?.. scary as molten iron around 1000 deg C comes hissing out of the thing. If you want something seriously dangerous try mining or various under water activities (submarines and scuba diving).
So should we stop doing things that have risk? We can?t even go back to the stone age, it was so dangerous that at 30 you would be an old man!.

What we have always done, and continue to do is risk management. We look at the risk and counter those risks with ways to minimise them. This minimisation has many levels that we aviators are familiar with and they fall into the areas of Mechanical, Natural and Human.

We have developed protocols to deal with the machines we fly to minimise the chance of failure. We do this so well aviation is safer than crossing the highway. Problems occur when we negate these protocols. Fail to do a thorough pre-flight or push out some maintenance.

We look scientifically at the natural environment to predict and warn about severe weather or fires and volcanoes. The problem occurs when we push our personal minima. What an old instructor of mine called ?Pressonitis? To press on regardless!

We recognise the human factors, such as tiredness, hydration and illness. We have rules and guidelines that pilots should follow. However are we good judges of our condition to fly? Can we accept we are not "on the top line"? How many of us will put off that flight because we are lacking in some way? Do we recognise we are not bullet proof? Do we recognise that eventually, if nothing else gets us, we will have to stop flying just as one day we will have to stop driving, motorcycling or water skiing? If not to preserve ourselves, then to not be a danger to other innocent people.

So what makes flying dangerous? We do! So who can make flying safer? Us!

If we keep following the protocols and be honest with ourselves then every trip should be as dangerous as every other trip and if we are honest with ourselves then the time to give it up for the safety of all should become obvious.

Anyway that?s my 2c worth.

Cheers

Jim
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2011, 08:50 AM
F1R F1R is offline
 
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Weather permitting, I would rather fly than drive. Some of my best ideas come to me when flying. A very mind clearing and relaxing experience, I find flight Less stressing than a drive to the grocery store or post office.

Plus one on Post #21.

Happy Landings
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  #44  
Old 10-06-2011, 09:15 AM
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apkp777 apkp777 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flion View Post
Yes, yes, but does He do your preflight or flight planning? "God helps those who help themselves." I'm not casting religious aspersions here. I'm just saying my prayer tends not to be "God help me" but rather "Lord, don't let me screw up."
That was not the point of my post. My point was, this thread is all about being afraid (IMO) of death. So much so, that you would give up flying because of it. My faith takes care of the death thing for me, so I am not about to give up something I enjoy for fear.

Let me brake the news to everyone. YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. There's probably worse ways to go than C.F.I.T.

It may be time for some people to watch "What about Bob" with Bill Murray. .
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2011, 09:47 AM
hjacquart hjacquart is offline
 
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Location: Levan,Utah
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I lost a friend yesterday to a crash of a Pulsar in Salt Lake City. This friend was a cfi and had every rating you could have and yet was still the victim of mechanical failure. It has made me pause and evalulate the risk vs. reward that was metioned in an earlier post. A life ended at 28 leaving a wife and two daughters behind. I know you can't live life by saying "what if" everytime we choose to do something, just makes me pause for a while and evaluate if it really is worth it.
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2011, 10:33 AM
WAM120RV WAM120RV is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coventry. England
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Default Still annoyed

Quote:
How many of these events does one undergo before we ask ourselves if it is worth being killed, in doing something we obviously love to do?
This is the question posed by the person opening this topic, its the reason I find the thread so annoying. I assumes that we are going to be killed if we fly.

Well I haven't been killed in the last 20 years......... I have known several people who have had accidents, engine failures and walked away from them without injury. I have only known personally one person who died, a very sad loss he was a good man.

However, 4 friends have been killed by cancer in the last 2 years and about 20 others have contracted various forms of it in the same period. Several of them now cannot fly because of their illness. Do they want to, your dammed right they do, they want to live life while they still have breath in their body.

One friend was just cleared of prostrate cancer almost immediately he went up in his Tailwind. Another who has the same form of the disease cant wait to get his licence back to fly his Long Eze.

Flying is not a death sentence and any question that makes the assumption that it is is just plain stupid and wrong. The fact is that most of the people who are killed or injured flying do something stupid, showboating, not checking they have sufficient fuel before a flight. Sometimes its mechanical failure......... but often this is down to human error. Proper technique, following procedures, and good training could have prevented most of them.


My friend above, well he was the innocent victim of circumstance and was hit by an aircraft doing an instrument approach who knew he was in front of them but failed to spot him. I have little sympathy for the people killed in that aeroplane because they were doing something stupid, instrument watching on a clear day, when looking out of the window could have saved all their lives.

The only good thing was that he died doing something he loved, not so the 4 other friends who were so full of morphine to ease the pain of cancer that they did not know which planet they were on.

So put the question as it should be put...... flying involves some risk should we give it up? You will hear a universal 'No'!

OK, so you can add in but if you do something stupid you could be killed, you will hear' then don't do something stupid and continue to enjoy flying.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2011, 11:04 AM
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Chino Tom Chino Tom is offline
 
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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Teddy Roosevelt
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  #48  
Old 10-06-2011, 11:16 AM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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Location: Big Sandy, WY
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I avoided this thread awhile because of the "here we go again" thing. But, its good, really good. This is what I've learned so far:
1) Don't wear a motorcycle helmet. Its bad for your neck.
2) Don't ride motorcycles.
3) Flying is "dangerous"
4) Flying homemade airplanes is extra "dangerous".
5) We're all a pack 'o' superheroes.
6) We're all a pack 'o' old maids
7) Jesus may actually be on this forum, but if he is he owes Doug $25.
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2011, 11:23 AM
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KevinL KevinL is offline
 
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This quote works for me.

"Remembering you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose".

Steve Jobs
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  #50  
Old 10-06-2011, 11:40 AM
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L.Adamson L.Adamson is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed View Post
1) Don't wear a motorcycle helmet. Its bad for your neck.
My helmet most likely broke my collarbone. But I was thrown onto the asphalt at 65 mph. The helmet took the abuse on the left side , as well as the face shield which flipped down on it's own. It would have been my skull and face, that met the "road" grinder other wise. Even my watch saved part of my arm, by being worn down by the asphalt.

I use to wear a helmet on a 50/50 bases (46 years of riding), and argued for the right of not being forced to wear one. I've kinda changed my mind about that...

P.S.--- leathers wouldn't have been a bad idea, either.

L.Adamson
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