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09-05-2011, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
These type of sensors are used all over the place with different brands of EFIS/EMS systems not to mention millions of land based vehicles. Not exclusive to Dynon and I doubt any EFIS/EMS maker manufactures their own sensors.
It would be nice to have solid state alternatives though.
The problem is that the EFIS/EMS needs to either be able to be calibrated to or have the sensor profile embedded in the setup options to be able to make the switch.
I think at least one EFIS/EMS maker is providing SS sensors for their EMS.
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I believe they all use the VDO style senders. They seem to come in 10-180 ohm ranges or the SW standard of 240-33 ohms - based on a max. pressure rating.
The temperature sender curves are here, including accuracy % - I presume there is a pressure sender document around too - it's in German but easy enough to follow -
http://tinymicros.com/mediawiki/imag..._Datasheet.pdf
This is on a VDO web site -
Unlike many companies today, we manufacturer our senders in our own ISO and TSO registered facilities, using the same quality materials and engineering processes, to meet the same quality standards as our OE products.
Perhaps we are just seeing the difference between genuine VDO parts and cheaper (Chinese?) senders.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
Last edited by az_gila : 09-05-2011 at 12:25 PM.
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09-06-2011, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 110
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inquiring mind wants to know
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hersha
Thanks for the picture. Very interesting and also an unbelievably crude mechanical device. With all the elecronic gizomos around these days, isn't there some solid state sensor the size of say, your fingernail, that will sense this pressure and last 2 lifetimes? .
Yes - Garmin supplies them the G3X system - compact, light, accurate...and they have real connectors on them! - Ironflight
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Ok, if no one else is going to ask, I would like some details about the Garmin hardware. Cost? manufacturer, or supplier? npt threads? pressure vs. resistance values? size?
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Jim Peck
San Francisco Bay Area
RV-7
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09-06-2011, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Northwestern USA
Posts: 1,209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Wrangler
Ok, if no one else is going to ask, I would like some details about the Garmin hardware. Cost? manufacturer, or supplier? npt threads? pressure vs. resistance values? size?
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The G3X system primarily uses Kavlico P4055 series pressure senders. You can get an idea of the end-user cost by looking at the Aircraft Spruce price list. Roughly speaking, they're about a hundred bucks apiece.
mcb
__________________
Matt Burch
RV-7 (last 90%)
http://www.rv7blog.com
VAF #836
Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not those of my employer.
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09-06-2011, 10:40 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,558
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I stand corrected.... I guess there is a lot of money in senders!
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SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2020
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09-06-2011, 11:50 AM
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 372
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Pressure transducers
The sensor that Garmin uses a "load cell" type, or piezoelectric. It has no moving parts but instead generates an extreamly small amount of current when compressed. VDO happens to also make this type of sensor, as do several other manufacturers. Here's a link to the VDO website page which shows the two different types of pressure sensors:
http://www.vdo.com/generator/www/com...ivetab=3863446
Hope this helps to clear up some of the mystery.
__________________
Carl - - Morrison, CO
N16CB RV7A
Airworthiness cert issued 12/24
best X-mas present I could have hoped for!
paid 'til 10-19
Last edited by ColoCardinal : 09-06-2011 at 11:51 AM.
Reason: html code change
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09-06-2011, 01:59 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 645
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Unreliable fuel pressure sensors!
My "Van's" fuel pressure sensor keeps going back and forth from approx. 1,5 to approx. 1,9 bar, at an approx. 1 sec. freq., sometimes and sometimes it is rock sollid. I attached a ground wire from the unit to the ground bus, to make sure I have good ground, but this does not make a difference.
I guess I will have to order a new one.
Regards, Tonny.
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"Pilottonny"
Tonny Tromp
Lanaken, Belgium (EU)
RV9A, Registration: PH-VAN
ECI-Titan IOX-320 with dual EI, turning a Whirlwind 200RV CS prop.
Sold
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09-06-2011, 02:04 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 110
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yeah, but
a piezo type sensor isn't going to work as a direct substitute for the resistance type mechanical sensor being discussed
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Jim Peck
San Francisco Bay Area
RV-7
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09-06-2011, 03:43 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Wrangler
a piezo type sensor isn't going to work as a direct substitute for the resistance type mechanical sensor being discussed
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It would on a Skyview if you use an "enhanced" input pin and use the sender manufacturer's calibration curve to set up the Dynon to read correctly. It's all programable.
Interestingly, the Mitchell STC sender and Dynon's instructions talk about using an Adel clamp to support the VDO-type sender. The Adel rubber may provide a little high frequency damping.
I wonder if the sender gets too much vibration hanging forward on the vans manifold - it may be affected by the amount of stiffening in the location selected.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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09-06-2011, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Wrangler
a piezo type sensor isn't going to work as a direct substitute for the resistance type mechanical sensor being discussed
It would on a Skyview if you use an "enhanced" input pin and use the sender manufacturer's calibration curve to set up the Dynon to read correctly. It's all programable. - az_gila
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"...an enhanced input pin... the sender manufacturer's calibration curve... It's all programable." , obviously we have a different definition of "direct replacement"; not to mention that not everyone has the Skyview.
__________________
Jim Peck
San Francisco Bay Area
RV-7
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09-06-2011, 07:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lux Wrangler
"...an enhanced input pin... the sender manufacturer's calibration curve... It's all programable." , obviously we have a different definition of "direct replacement"; not to mention that not everyone has the Skyview.
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The original post was about a Dynon unit - being a RV-10, I assumed a later Skyview unit...
It is replaceable, and I mentioned what is needed. A lot of other EMS units cannot handle the current input created by these solid state units, Dynon's Skyview can on three specific pins. Those pins can then be programmed to any of the usual (or not so usual) EMS functions.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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