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  #41  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:04 PM
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Jeff A Jeff A is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
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Question

Out of shear curiosity and at the risk of being off-topic (as I know this only pertains to RVs), do military airplanes have to operate under the same rules when flying into and out of civilian towered airports? I see the exact same operations that the original poster described going on all day everyday at KAFW with military aircraft. Just curious....
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  #42  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:08 PM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
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Default Perhaps surprising

Most people have no idea what an airplane called RV is. Is this some small elite group that is reported to be bashing RVs?

Bob Axsom
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  #43  
Old 08-21-2011, 06:46 PM
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LifeofReiley LifeofReiley is offline
 
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Location: Round Rock, TX
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Default Just Curious...

Post #1 states "RV doing a low pass at about 100' " then Post #27 states
"a low pass at less that 100' AGL". What was the reference used for these quoted measurements? Why are they different? Maybe it was at 125' or maybe even 200'?
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  #44  
Old 08-21-2011, 07:36 PM
BuffDriver BuffDriver is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Barksdale AFB, LA
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff A View Post
Out of shear curiosity and at the risk of being off-topic (as I know this only pertains to RVs), do military airplanes have to operate under the same rules when flying into and out of civilian towered airports? I see the exact same operations that the original poster described going on all day everyday at KAFW with military aircraft. Just curious....
Yes, except that sometimes they have waivers to exceed speed limits. For instance the T-38 is waivered to 300kias below 10kft. In general, military aircraft are subject to all the same rules that civilian aircraft are when operating anywhere in the NAS.

Last edited by BuffDriver : 08-21-2011 at 07:41 PM.
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  #45  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:06 PM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
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Default

I don't believe the low pass is the problem but the high-g pull-up at the departure end which cause the trouble, am I wrong?

Certainly the low-pass in and of itself can be a useful maneuver to verify landing and runway conditions. I WILL NOT land at a grass field I haven't been to recently without a low pass first... and often do this to uncontrolled fields when windsocks are hard to see from the air.
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  #46  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:25 PM
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RVG8tor RVG8tor is offline
 
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Location: McKinney, TX
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Default High "G"

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeofReiley View Post
Post #1 states "RV doing a low pass at about 100' " then Post #27 states
"a low pass at less that 100' AGL". What was the reference used for these quoted measurements? Why are they different? Maybe it was at 125' or maybe even 200'?
One of the posts talked about a "high G " pull up. How can they tell what G load was used? What constitutes "high" G, 5,3 or 6? I bet no more that 2 G was used, no more that a 60 degree bank turn requires to hold level flight.

A climbing turn to down wind is basically a chandel, a maneuver taught to instrument pilots or it used to be when I was trained.
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  #47  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:34 PM
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Moondog Moondog is offline
 
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Location: Galveston, TX
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Default Low pass

Wasn?t sure what kind of plane was taking off at the air field behind my house, wasn?t familiar with the sound. It was perhaps 500 AGL when I walked outside to check it out. Never climbed above 800? while making a lazy turn back to base. Lined up with the runway, then descended to probably 200? and accelerated to make what was obviously going to be a very high speed pass. At the tower, it nosed up into a climb that would have impressed a fighter pilot. I?d guess it was a couple of minutes before it disappeared into blue skies above me. As long as I could see it, it never leveled out. And no it wasn?t an RV, it was a B-52 leaving Ellington Field (near Houston) the day after an air show. Was it wise? Legal? Maybe not. But it was pretty cool.
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  #48  
Old 08-21-2011, 08:50 PM
BuffDriver BuffDriver is offline
 
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Location: Barksdale AFB, LA
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog View Post
Wasn?t sure what kind of plane was taking off at the air field behind my house, wasn?t familiar with the sound. It was perhaps 500 AGL when I walked outside to check it out. Never climbed above 800? while making a lazy turn back to base. Lined up with the runway, then descended to probably 200? and accelerated to make what was obviously going to be a very high speed pass. At the tower, it nosed up into a climb that would have impressed a fighter pilot. I?d guess it was a couple of minutes before it disappeared into blue skies above me. As long as I could see it, it never leveled out. And no it wasn?t an RV, it was a B-52 leaving Ellington Field (near Houston) the day after an air show. Was it wise? Legal? Maybe not. But it was pretty cool.
Most likely doing a practice circling approach. It did a low approach because the runway isn't wide enough for our tip gear (unless you consider one foot per side to be adequate margin). It climbed like a bat out of **** because there is an abundance of extra thrust in the BUFF, especially when they are light weight, which he probably was if he was just leaving an airshow and heading back home. Glad you enjoyed the show.
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  #49  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:40 PM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
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Location: Chandler, AZ
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Default Perception

Folks, this is a matter of perception. Is such an act necessary under normal arrival procedures? I will submit that it is not. It really doesn't matter if it is legal or not.

We never know who is hanging around a given airport. Why do something that can bring attention to ourselves? Notice I didn't say "negative" attention.

There are four factions involved. (Actually more if we wanted to take it farther) 1) Pilots 2) RV pilots 3) Non RV pilots 4) Non pilot public. We have heard recently from the AOPA forums that we (RV pilots) have established a less than positive reputation with non RV pilots. Right or wrong, deserved or not, it is there. I've heard it around our community.

The unknown is how the public views us. I'm sure they don't know the specifics of different aircraft, but they can view differences in behavior and procedures. As an example, I live at an air park. It is P19 in Chandler, AZ. Check it out on Google Earth. It is a very unusual air park in that it is very urban. We have large tract residential areas on 3 borders.

On one occasion, I was talking to one of these neighbors. He asked why, on occasion, do some airplanes look like they are landing but go down the runway "like a bat out of hell?" The question and the tone were clearly unfavorable.

Occasionally, a couple of our Glasair or Lancair owners will make make high speed passes. I'm not grouping them into plane category because I know the guys. Just mentioning the plane for the next comment. Point being that the Cessna 182's or Cherokee's don't do such passes.

Also, no need to pick nits on the altitude or the high G pull up. You know what he is describing. Both Glenn and I are medical helicopter pilots. We have done extensive autorotation training. Flare altitude is critical for survival. I will be willing to bet that we can accurately guess the altitude of an aircraft (AGL) below 200' within 10'. So in the original post, he mentions 100'. I could have been 90 or 110.' Again, don't get technical on the altitude.

In summary, in this time in history, we need to self evaluate our every action. If there is any doubt as to its appropriateness, DON'T DO IT.
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  #50  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:42 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Default YEP

Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7Guy View Post
we need to self evaluate our every action. If there is any doubt as to its appropriateness, DON'T DO IT.
Well said Darwin.
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