Poll: Overhead Breaks - good or bad

[Ron Lee]

Moments ago I had just finished trimming bushes...minding my own business. Not bothering anyone. Got the pooch and was heading inside when I heard something.

Yes it was an airplane but the sound was not right. It was in the wrong place. So I look to the west and there it was! It was doing an overhead approach. The break took it over my property. I was in awe.

This is odd. It is alone. I watch it curve into downwind then go inside thinking that this is just not right. The audacity of some rogue pilots. It was a canard aircraft.

[DanH]

191 posts to debate a potato, but 4 posts in a thread about engineering analysis of modifications.....in a homebuilt forum.

I'm just sayin'.

[brogers]

Originally Posted by apkp777

Why would you have needed to fly 10 miles out of the way to get on the 45?

The "straight-in" wouldn't have bothered the fellow on downwind, he offered it. The guy on crosswind now has to look for traffic entering on the downwind, 45 AND overhead. It's not just about you having the other traffic in sight. They too need to see you.

10 miles was a guess and I just did the trig to verify. You are right, it was not that far. It turns out to be 7.8 miles difference from the strait in to a 45 downwind entry. On longer flights this would diminish.

As for the fact that the guy on downwind offered, that is true and I could have taken advantage of that. I also knew that those in the pattern were flight school students paying for an airplane and instructor time. Thought it would be courteous as my flight time is much less costly. Just my opinion and I understand ths is a judgement call that could have easily gone either way with very little effect on safety. If it were another pilot that I know, I probably would have taken that advantage.

WRT the person on crosswind, don't forget that the sun was low in the western sky on a hazy day where the 45 entry would have put me flying directly into the sun. This would have made it very difficult to acquire any traffic in the haze. My position would not have made it any more difficult for the crosswind traffic to acquire me due to the weather conditions (they were looking NE to find me). As for the fact that they now have to look for me and traffic on the 45... they should be doing that anyway as there is no requirement to enter on the 45 and traffic could be coming from anywhere. Again, just my opinion.

The AC is non-regulatory in nature and should not be a substitute for good pilot judgment based on all the available information. My personal practice is to use a 45 entry unless there is a good reason not to (navigation, airspace, operational considerations, weather, existing traffic, etc.). I do not subscribe to the one size fits all situations. Again, just my opinion and YMMV.

Bill Rogers

[Sam Buchanan]

Originally Posted by DanH

191 posts to debate a potato, but 4 posts in a thread about engineering analysis of modifications.....in a homebuilt forum.

I'm just sayin'.

Dan,

Anybody can (endlessly) debate a potato, but you have to know what you are talking about to discuss engineering analysis of modifications......

[Ron Lee]

First and foremost, please stop denigrating the potato(e). I just bought several and have been successful lately in making baked potatoes (in an oven instead of a microwave). I would hate to swear them off because of the conversation here.

This has been useful if not lengthy. I get two main points as a proponent of this approach.

1) Use better terminology that most pilots will understand.

2) Never cut off another pilot in the pattern. Better to inconvenience the overhead pilot(s) than others.

Finally, I have seen no evidence that this approach is under scrutiny by the FAA. There are real safety issues that need to be recognized and fixed. Devote the time to fixing those well known problems....become the safest group in GA...and the overhead approach will be a non-issue.

RVFlightSafety.org

[Flybuddy2]

Does the potato have "skin" in the game or just a "chip" on it's shoulder?

[Chris Hill]

As far as the general population of aviators goes, the only ones who need to know what an overhead break is are the ones performing it. I can safely do OBs all day long in a traffic pattern full of pilots who dont know what one is since the OH pattern is already deconflicted from the rest of the pattern EXCEPT in the break to downwind. On initial, you are above aircraft on base/final. Your main area of conflict is obviously turning to downwind, so clear that area aggressively and then once rolled out on DW, call your downwind if you feel like other aircraft could be low on SA.

The safe execution of the OH pattern rests entirely on the pilots performing it (same could be said for the conventional pattern...), so if you are well versed/trained in the OH, then I say its good to go.

The OB is performed WITHIN the rectangular pattern. So you can enter the rectangular pattern, fly outside DW, turn to initial, execute the break, fly inside DW-base-final and you are meeting all of the FAA reqs/guidance.

[Flybuddy2]

Originally Posted by Chris Hill

The safe execution of the OH pattern rests entirely on the pilots performing it .

Chris--this is the issue that most naysayers bring up. The other guys in the pattern have to rely on the OH pilot for the "safe execution". This may be a well versed, experienced pilot or it could be a hot dogger copy cat. All the guy on downwind knows is that someone just popped into the pattern that he probably didn't see and didn't follow the procedure his CFI taught him. Once it's explained to him (as above) that his personal safety is reliant on someone he sees as a hot dogger he will form a **** poor perception of RV pilots and equipment.

[Chris Hill]

You cant mix apples and oranges though. You can argue the merit of the pattern or argue quality of airmanship.

A correctly executed OH pattern is perfectly OK.

A pilot who flies poorly can screw up both an OH or standard pattern.

[Webb]

Originally Posted by DanH

191 posts to debate a potato, but 4 posts in a thread about engineering analysis of modifications.....in a homebuilt forum.

I'm just sayin'.

Hey Dan - Have you used the potato for a mold so that you can glass it? Don't forget to pick one that is teardrop shape since it has the least drag. That way if it flys the overhead maneuver, it will be able to keep the speed up at 500 feet above pattern altitude so it won't conflict with other traffic in the pattern.