Poll: Overhead Breaks - good or bad

[Ron Lee]

Originally Posted by Toobuilder

"3 miles to the east at pattern altitude, level, westbound , on extended centerline for runway 27..."

That is one possible transmission. Seventeen words.

Actually for this scenario I would state:

"Three miles east, Runway 27" which is six words. Eleven less that yours. Now I could add words about an overhead approach which would also be added to yours. Mine as stated is about one-third as wordy so I am OK if I get charged by the word.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

That is one possible transmission. Seventeen words.

Actually for this scenario I would state:

"Three miles east, Runway 27" which is six words. Eleven less that yours. Now I could add words about an overhead approach which would also be added to yours. Mine as stated is about one-third as wordy so I am OK if I get charged by the word.

OK, now I finally get to return some of the grief that I've been getting in this thread

I would interpret that transmission to indicate you are 3 miles east of runway 27 "flying around"... It's a very general position report of no specific interest to those already in the pattern. It's an "oh, by the way... " type of report. Information lacking in yours compared to mine is altitude, heading, track, whether you are climbing, level, or descending and finally, your intent to join the pattern.

With mine, you get all that info, plus at only 5 words, I'm still ahead.

[Flybuddy2]

FYI--the quote below is a post from the AOPA thread concerning the recent RV midair:

Originally, I had thought that the wild antics I've seen from some RV pilots was actually limited to just a small number of them. However, a new poll on the RV Air Force website, http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=75495 makes we not so sure. It indicates that more than half of them think that the Overhead Break pattern entry is a good idea. I've always thought that maneuver was very inappropriate at a non-towered airport, it's scary to think that the majority of RV'ers think it's ok.

This is probably not far off the mark on how most non-RV aviators feel about this. I wonder what the results of this poll would be if done on AOPA forum?

[L.Adamson]

edit out by me

[RVG8tor]

The overhead is a safe efficient pattern, please educate yourself on it I posted this in a somewhat rant on another thread.

We have all heard the call entering "45 to downwind" and you start looking, it seems guys hit the 45 anywhere along the length of the runway not just the middle. The overhead on the other hand has you fly over the numbers before downwind, you can get a nice look at anyone on inside or outside downwind, this is safe, anywhere along the way if there is a traffic conflict you climb above the pattern and re-enter same spot. It is the same spot for everyone.

Now my "Green" spin, if you are doing multiple touch and go you can get more done with less fuel burn using the closed pattern after entering from the overhead. At $6 for a gallon I would much rather get my training/practice in a shorter period of time and hence less fuel used.

I honestly feel there are folks bashing the overhead and they they have no clue to it advantages and may have never flown one.

Seems to me the EAA has a perfect organizational structure and resources to teach the value of the overhead pattern, I think once understood it would be used by many aircraft not just RVs. Let's stop appeasing the mis-informed and educate them.

I feel better now.

Cheers

See you at initial!

[brogers]

I was approaching an airport this afternoon in a manner that would make for a good strait in approach. There were two aircraft in the pattern doing T&G's. About 4 miles out it became clear that that one aircraft would confilct with at strait in approach and he was going to graciously extend the downwind for me to land first. Instead, I told him to continue his approach as normal while I perform the overhead break at midfield to fall in behind him on the downwind. I adjusted my speed such that, at the point of break, the second aircraft in the pattern was on the crosswind (in full sight). The break sequenced my aircraft evenly between the two aircraft already in the pattern without affecting any of their operations. It also allowed me to keep them both in sight on a very hazy day with the sun low in the sky. The way I communicated the OB to the other pilots did not seem to confuse them.

Just wanted to share a real world situation where I think an OB allowed for increased safety (better visability of other AC in the pattern) and more efficient operations (didn't have to fly 10 miles out of my way to enter the 45 for downwind).

Bill Rogers
RV-7

[Ron Lee]

Originally Posted by brogers

.....didn't have to fly 10 miles out of my way to enter the 45 for downwind).

Bill, you reduced those meanie greenhouse gases and thus were environmentally a nice guy.

In addition, you were courteous and made the traffic flow smoothly with no ill will created among other pilots.

At my airport, I have seen EZs, Cessnas and assorted other aircraft doing the overhead approach.

[apkp777]

Originally Posted by brogers

...didn't have to fly 10 miles out of my way to enter the 45 for downwind). Bill Rogers RV-7

Why would you have needed to fly 10 miles out of the way to get on the 45?

The "straight-in" wouldn't have bothered the fellow on downwind, he offered it. The guy on crosswind now has to look for traffic entering on the downwind, 45 AND overhead. It's not just about you having the other traffic in sight. They too need to see you.

[apkp777]

Here's the FAA's position:

"Arriving aircraft should be at the appropriate traffic pattern altitude before entering the traffic pattern. Entry to the downwind leg should be at a 45-clegree angle abeam the midpoint of the runway". AC90-66A

"Compliance with the basic rectangular traffic pattern reduces the possibility of conflicts at airports without an operating control tower. It is imperative that the pilot form the habit of exercising constant vigilance in the vicinity of airports even though the air traffic appears to be light.... When approaching an airport for landing, the traffic pattern should be entered at a 45? angle to the downwind leg, headed toward a point abeam of the midpoint of the runway to be used for landing. Arriving airplanes should be at the proper traffic pattern altitude before entering the pattern, and should stay clear of the traffic flow until established on the entry leg. Entries into traffic patterns while descending create specific collision hazards and should always be avoided." FAA-8083-3A Airplane Flying Handbook Chapter 7

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by apkp777

Here's the FAA's position:

"Arriving aircraft should be at the appropriate traffic pattern altitude before entering the traffic pattern. Entry to the downwind leg should be at a 45-clegree angle abeam the midpoint of the runway". AC90-66A

"Compliance with the basic rectangular traffic pattern reduces the possibility of conflicts at airports without an operating control tower. It is imperative that the pilot form the habit of exercising constant vigilance in the vicinity of airports even though the air traffic appears to be light.... When approaching an airport for landing, the traffic pattern should be entered at a 45? angle to the downwind leg, headed toward a point abeam of the midpoint of the runway to be used for landing. Arriving airplanes should be at the proper traffic pattern altitude before entering the pattern, and should stay clear of the traffic flow until established on the entry leg. Entries into traffic patterns while descending create specific collision hazards and should always be avoided." FAA-8083-3A Airplane Flying Handbook Chapter 7

Tony:

I can think of three airports in the USA that 45 entry is seldom or not possible to do.

Look up 55S (Packwood) on AirNav, Runway Finder or SkyVector. The airport is in a valley and you cannot get to it from a 45 in a fixed wing aircraft.

Look up L05 (Kern Valley). It is another airport in a valley.

Here is one that is not in a valley but has Charlie Airspace on two sides and Delta Airspace on the other. 45 entry is under Charlie 1/2 mile between Charlie and Delta Airspace. CCB (Cable Airport, Upland) Normal entry is Crosswind for the calm wind and prevailing wind runway.