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08-20-2011, 06:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: McKinney, TX
Posts: 1,261
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I don't' get it
Deleted - it was validly pointed out my comments did not relate to this thread.
__________________
Mike "Nemo" Elliott
RV-8A (First Flight 12-12-12!)
KOCF
N800ME
www.mykitlog.com/rvg8tor
Dues Paid 2019
Last edited by RVG8tor : 08-20-2011 at 10:57 PM.
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08-20-2011, 07:05 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 3,778
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Deleted... off the topic as noted. 
__________________
Reiley
Retired N622DR - Serial #V7A1467
VAF# 671
Repeat Offender / Race 007
Friend of the RV-1
Last edited by LifeofReiley : 08-21-2011 at 01:03 PM.
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08-20-2011, 07:19 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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Good..
I hope my last post got dumped. I feel better...and don't have to edit myself.
Woops ... wrong thread. So I dumped it from the other one.
L.Adamson
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08-20-2011, 07:25 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Vero Beach, FL
Posts: 881
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Careless and Reckless Operations
I just want to jump in here in the hopes of imparting some experience about what the FAA's position is on low passes, sharp pull ups, etc.
We have a situation here in central Florida in one of our aviation communities where there is one individual who apparently takes great pleasure in turning folks into the FAA for certain activities at his home field. Those of us here know about this situation and stay away from this field or at the very least we are forewarned about the potential consequences. This guy will sit out in his yard with his video camera and film anyone who makes a low pass, non-standard pattern, etc. He then files a complaint at the Orlando FSDO and sends them the video. There have been numerous violations issued because of this individual--some are legitimate, others borderline, but who needs this? The FAA takes the position that if they receive a complaint, they must act, and oftentimes it results in a violation under the "careless and reckless" category, if not outright aerobatics. So, there you have it, we have documented cases here where the FAA will violate someone for a low pass. Their position is that this is "careless and reckless" operation, albeit usually someone has to issue a well documented complaint before they will issue a violation.
I guess what I would take away from this is that anytime you make a low pass and high-g pullup, or just a low pass, you are potentially risking your ticket. Most times you will get away with it, but why risk getting into a hassle with the FAA?
I hope this information will help someone avoid a potential problem some day! 
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08-20-2011, 07:33 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bellevue, NE
Posts: 686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVG8tor
How about being "green" I can complete more touch and goes and burn less fuel using the closed pattern than flying the giant box pattern. There is some food for thought, after all fuel is not getting any cheaper. Perhaps the entire civilian system needs to transition to the overhead.
See you at Initial.
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If we add in the outside pattern concept along with the closed pattern, then we'd have the best of both worlds. Those who want to fly the long drawn out straighten approach can while the rest of us are in the closed pattern. Just don't pull closed or break with someone inside of 2 miles (at trainer speeds).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVG8tor
See you at Initial.
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Me too.
-Jim
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08-20-2011, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southeast
Posts: 569
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I've been flying my -7A for over 6 years. I don't fly overhead approaches, but don't have a quibble with those who do. However, at non-towered airports, I do fly it much in the same manner as I fly the high performance turboprops and jets that I fly for work.
Meaning, I use straight-in approaches whenever I can. Initial radio call is 5 miles out, if no other traffic is heard, I continue and announce "2 mile final runway XX". Then another announcement "1 mile final runway XX".
If other traffic is heard or seen, I re-evaluate the efficacy of the straight-in approach and proceed accordingly.
I've found that with a little planning in my -7A, I steadily decelerate from cruise speed and reach a 65 knot approach speed with full flaps by the time I reach a 1/2 mile final. And that's with a fixed pitch prop.
I just hope that those who use overhead approaches are thoughtful enough to consider other airplanes and use verbiage in their radio calls that even the most inexperienced pilot can understand. That's why I announce a specific distance. For example: A VFR pilot isn't going to understand when you announce, "N12345 is crossing (insert the final approach fix name here) inbound on the ILS runway XX approach." It's far better to announce "N12345 5 mile final runway XX."
I saw this first hand when I observed a tower controller trying to get an airplane to stop and not cross a runway. He said, "N12345, hold short of runway 30" three times with no effect, even though the pilot acknowledged it. Finally, the controller said, "N12345 stop." And guess what, he stopped.
Fly safe,
Mike
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08-20-2011, 08:05 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 613
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Lots of talk here about overhead approaches. My initial post described the pilot doing a low pass at less that 100' AGL....
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08-20-2011, 08:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Michigan
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVG8tor
I have been reading all the realated posts but... Anyone who knows how to fly the overhead pattern also knows that it is a perfect way to enter the downwind even with traffic entering at the 45.
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But the majority of pilots at civilian airport don't know how to fly the overhead pattern. Most don't even know what it is. And that is why all the talk about how its better, how its safer, how everyone should be doing it is nothing more than a very insufficient defense of a practice that gives a black eye to the entire RV community.
And that black eye is something that you either care about or you do not. If you don't care about it, then there really isn't any point in discussing it further.
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08-20-2011, 08:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
I have now found out, that we have a "stigma"...........and just accept the fact, and live with it, or do not purchase an RV. Kind of like Harley's, I was told. Hadn't heard of this for the last 17 years, or any where I've been.....but found out yesterday (from the informed ones).
Okay............I'm still ticked...
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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I first heard about this "stigma" four or five years ago when I was building my airplane. A co-worker, who was an avid GA pilot, and kept an airplane at a local uncontrolled GA airport, laughingly mentioned the quiet derision of the local RV "top gun wannabes" that was very much alive at that airport. This is not a "new" issue, by any means.
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020
"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne
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08-20-2011, 09:47 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Does anyone remember the days when you could come to VAF and read respectfully submitted opinions, clearly stated facts, and honest, open discussions - without all the emotions, all the **** (which means that you can't think of a decent word), and all of the clearly "oh yeah, who's going to make me!!" bullying behavior?
I liked that - it was what set this place apart. We have now had a solid week of threads which has done nothing but divide us. We have posters with only a few posts (and no name in their profile, or signature in their posts) making broad acrimonious statements. Every thread other than one asking a specific building question devolves into an argument about behavior.
And no folks, the Moderators can't fix it without being called out as draconian.
If you want VAF to become a swamp, then keep it up. One thing I am absolutely certain of - you are not going to change a person's mind by arguing with them on the internet. You just poison the atmosphere for everyone.
(If you HAVE to post yet another vote for or against the Overhead break, why not do it over on that thread. This thread is about low passes!)
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
Last edited by Ironflight : 08-20-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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