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  #11  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:53 PM
Phil's Avatar
Phil Phil is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
Default

Details Eric!!

What are you running?

Phil
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  #12  
Old 08-18-2011, 10:10 PM
jay.pearlman jay.pearlman is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Angeles WA
Posts: 250
Default fairings

Some time ago, I don't remember who - perhaps they will speak up - mentioned that the alignment of the fairings has a big impact on their performance. You need to adjust their alignment through a series of iterations/flight tests. You may be able to tuft them. Check the history of similar discussions in the forum.
Sometimes cooling drag can make a difference if you have leaks up front.
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  #13  
Old 08-18-2011, 10:55 PM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default All RV-10 speeds in SARL Sanctioned races

RV-10s are just starting to show up in SARL Sanctioned races and I found only six records in the race flight statistics. For these and any other aircraft that have raced and accumulated 1036 data records as of the Indy race on 8-13-11, you can go to www.sportairrace.org, click on "Records and Stats", click on "League Statistics", and finally click on "All Speeds by Aircraft Type" and the Excel file sorted by aircraft type in alphabetic order then by speed from fastest to slowest will be downloaded to your computer. The list below shows the speed in knots only since that is what you are interested in but both kts and mph are included in the file.

RV-10 Nafsinger, Nick 191.47
RV-10 Schmidt, Scott 184.14
RV-10 Strasburg, Sean 183.43
RV-10 Arter, Warren 182.18
RV-10 Dawson-Townsend, Tim 159.89
RV-10 Kristensen, Ivan 150.09

This is Nick's RV-10 in the fuel line at Taylor, TX in November 2010, after he completed his 191.47 kt (220+mph) race flight. He has his fairings installed.


At the site indicated above there are also files sorted by race and speed, speed only, class and speed as well as pilot and speed which include all 1036 race flights completed to date. I have the duty of maintaining them so if you run across some errors, let me know.

Bob Axsom

Last edited by Bob Axsom : 08-18-2011 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Added photo and comment
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  #14  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:05 AM
ddnebert ddnebert is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 118
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Yes, the proper setting of full up flaps "reflex" and ailerons will help the speed.

Dont know what Hartzell has to do with flap rigging
Two subjects:
1. On prop comparison, Hartzell said I should be 3 kts slower.
2. By 'reflex' you mean fully 'up' (-3degrees) should get 2-3 kts over takeoff (0deg) position.
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Doug Nebert - RV-10, #40546 (SB), started 2/2006, low compression O540 with older CS prop, 375+ hours on Hobbs. Flying since August 2010. Based KONP, Newport, OR
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  #15  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:17 AM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddnebert View Post
2. By 'reflex' you mean fully 'up' (-3degrees) should get 2-3 kts over takeoff (0deg) position.
Yes, and the ailerons too, the entire trailing edge should be a straight line from the wing tip to the wing tip.

Dihedral, and fuselage exempted, of course
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

Last edited by Mike S : 08-19-2011 at 09:42 AM.
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  #16  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:30 AM
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TroyBranch TroyBranch is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 456
Default Fly higher

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric.kallio View Post
You are far from the slowest- 10. With about 40 hours on mine and all fairings installed 23 MP and 2400 RPM at 4,000 PA I am unable to get above 147 kts TAS.

Eric Kallio
The plane is not very efficient down low. I am always amazed at how much differently the plane flys at lower altitudes. For one the MPG goes way down for a higher aispeed at the lower altitudes. The plane needs the thinners air for efficiency.
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RV10 Built and Flying Since Feb 2009
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SuperSTOL Built and Sold
RV9 Built and Sold
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  #17  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:30 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Finish before re-rigging

Just a suggestion finish building your airplane by installing the fairings perfectly inline with the centerline of the airplane and test the speed using a standard procedure at a specific density altitude using three or 4 different direction legs and process the results with the NTPS.xls file (spreadsheet) and get a baseline speed before you start rerigging and buying new parts.

Van's test results and mine concur with what Hartzell told you. The BA is 3 kts.
Faster.

Bob Axsom
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  #18  
Old 08-19-2011, 10:25 AM
bcondrey bcondrey is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bellevue, NE
Posts: 524
Default

Don't know when the speed results for Ivan were posted but we talked at OSH this year and he confirmed that the wheel pants and gear leg fairings made a huge difference in his speed once installed. I suspect the numbers shown were prior to him installing them (he just recently did it).

Bob
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  #19  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:48 AM
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David Shelton David Shelton is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Belvidere, IL
Posts: 169
Default 30 Knots

What if there really is a 30 knot speed mod? From racing sailplanes as well as my aerospace career, I've been involved in a number of drag reduction projects. However, it's interesting to share a fresh approach.

A few years ago, NASA conducted personal air vehicle research that focused on door-to-door trip speeds. What?s really slowing us down? While our airplanes are very fast, NASA found that inter-modal delays (example; picking up a rental car) and driving times are cutting our overall trip speeds in half. They went on to conclude that, ?strategies addressing delay are more attractive than the traditional approach of increasing cruise speed.?

What does this mean for an RV-10? Below, we can see a typical 200nm cross-country in an RV-10. After accounting for inter-modal delays and ground commute, the door-to-door trips speed is only 98.6 knots. In the second column, we can see that a conventional 5-knot speed mod has very little effect on the overall trip speed.



How can I get there even faster? MotoPOD LLC developed a patent-pending motorcycle carrier to provide pilots with immediate ground transportation at any airport. After landing, it takes around 90 seconds to remove the motorcycle, unfold the handlebars and ride away. This drastically improves trip speed in two ways:

1)Inter-modal delays: The average time spent in a rental car office is 21.5 minutes? not including the time spent making a reservation or returning the car. By comparison, bringing a street-legal motorcycle allows the pilot to transition from flying to riding in as little as 90 seconds.

2)Drive Time: Only 1/3 of public airports have ground transportation services. A motorcycle allows pilots to utilize 300% more airports and land closer to the final destination. The average drive is 11 minutes shorter.

In the third column, you can see how the motorcycle affects door-to-door speed. By addressing the weakest links in our trip, the door-to-door trip speeds are boosted by just over 30 knots! No other speed mod comes close! Furthermore, it?s probably the cheapest speed mod. A fancy prop or engine upgrade can cost upwards of $10,000/knot (trip speed). At around $15,000, the motorcycle and carrier are less than $500/knot.

When people first see my belly pod, they often ask, ?How much does that slow you down?? While this would be a relevant concern to a pylon racer, it really shows a narrow focus. As far as reaching my everyday destinations, nothing else will get me to grandma?s house faster. According to my calculations, I should be competitive against multi-million dollar jets on a typical 200nm trip.

Several of my friends have much faster airplanes and I once tried to arrange a simple race. My proposal was to select a random restaurant from a phone book and see who gets there first. The loser would pay for lunch. Unfortunately, I never found any takers. Not only were they concerned about losing the race, but they also felt that it wasn?t very fun or convenient to visit an off-airport restaurant. Perhaps more than speed, this illustrates the benefit that I enjoy most. With immediate ground transportation at every airport, I?ve enjoyed flying to new places, exploring destinations and traveling more conveniently than before.

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  #20  
Old 08-19-2011, 02:06 PM
eric.kallio eric.kallio is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Prairieville, LA
Posts: 118
Default My set-up

IO-540 w/Lightspeed and 1 slick mag and the standard Hartzell 2-blade prop. James cowl (this is where I contribute much of my problem to with cooling drag). Pants and fairings are on and aligned. Flaps are set with the reflex and there is no aileron droop. Until recently the ceilings have been solid overcast with strong storms on the weekend. Clear blue skies though as I sit in my office or in the helicopters. I would expect to see about 160+ as I get up to and above 8,000 feet. I have been tweaking the CG in my recent flights to get as close to neutral elevator trim position in flight to even reduce the drag from the tab (adding weight in the baggage compartment to shift the MAC closer to center of the range has improved the in-fllight attitude and I saw 8 KTAS from this). Each little thing gets a little more speed. After my upcoming deployment I am going to tackle cooling drag and plenum issues with the James cowl to see if I can't wring out a little more with a more efficient flow through the plenum. I am never going to win any races, but I dare not say I am unhappy. Love the plane, even if I am the last one to the party.

Eric

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post
Details Eric!!

What are you running?

Phil
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RV-10
N518RV... Flying
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