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08-15-2011, 03:53 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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Right on Don
Don is thinking straight. With traffic, I think everyone should be flying the same pattern. Otherwise how is everyone gonna know how to sequence and where to look. This glide thing is way overdone. By that logic it would be unsafe to ever leave the runway environment. Much safer to make your best fit into the pattern traffic than to worry about glide distance. Surprises me to hear anyone think otherwise.
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08-15-2011, 04:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed
Much safer to make your best fit into the pattern traffic than to worry about glide distance. Surprises me to hear anyone think otherwise.
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This is simply not good advice to follow.
Almost 20 years ago I had a 172 I was renting quit running on downwind due to a mag problem (H2AD dual mag worn cam). Back in '03 I helped pull another 172 from a field that got totalled 200 ft from the runway when the student pilot pulled the mixture instead of the carb heat and didn't realize what he had done but was sufficiently distant where he couldn't make the runway..too wide of a pattern. Amazing he walked away from the wreck.
These practical lessons taught me in no uncertain terms that low, slow, and too far out is not a good place to be.
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Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
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Not a thing I own is stock.
Last edited by rocketbob : 08-15-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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08-15-2011, 04:20 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Destin
Posts: 1,543
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always assume the other guy is dumber than you, and give way/yield
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08-15-2011, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8RV
KEEP YOUR TRAFFIC PATTERN WITHIN GLIDING DISTANCE IN CASE YOUR ENGINE DIES.
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Whenever I hear this I think of the "OX-5 Club", which was made up of pilots who spent time flying behind Curtis OX-5 engines. The distinguishing features of the OX-5 seem to have been high weight, low power, and a tendency to stop working while in flight. My primary instructor was a member of this club, and had made at least one forced landing behind an OX-5. She was also somewhat obsessive about keeping potential landing areas within reach, whether in the pattern or during cruise.
I have often wondered to what extent the warning to "stay within gliding distance of the runway" reflects the real failure probability of "modern" aircraft engines, versus the lore passed down from the early days of aviation?
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Alan Carroll
RV-8 N12AC
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08-15-2011, 04:43 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Even if you ignore the gliding range bit of my calculations, the 500 ft. AGL turn to final from 2 miles out would put you below a standard 3 dregree VASI slope.
Normal approaches probably should be done at or above the 3 degree slope, rather than a "drag it in from the boonies" final...
Part of the "Fly Neighborly" approach.
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Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
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08-15-2011, 05:09 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 1,019
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Have not seen it yet but why not do a 360 back to downwind? That's what a controller might give you.
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Carlos in Arizona
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"The air is an extremely dangerous, jealous and exacting mistress. Once under the spell most lovers are faithful to the end, which is not always old age." - Winston Churchill
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08-15-2011, 05:24 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wilsonville, OR
Posts: 453
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As an active CFI at KUAO, I would suggest to my students to never turn final if another aircraft is on final approach. If the aircraft on final is 5 miles out and all they give is an N-number, you have no idea how fast they are moving. We have a lot of jet traffic at UAO, so 5-miles out is pretty quick for the Falcon 900EX that is based there. Always communicate with the other traffic first. If it's a C-150/172 on final, 5 miles out, than ask if you can sneak in. If you can't get in front of the traffic on final and you don't want to extend your downwind, perform a right (or left) turn and re-enter the pattern on a 45 for the downwind leg. Be sure to communicate your maneuver to ensure any other traffic on the 45 inbound knows to look for you.
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Trevor Conroy CFII, MEI
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08-15-2011, 05:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: boynton beach fl
Posts: 210
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Right 270 to base.
Been years since I've worked tower but a right 270 to base to follow traffic might work here. Keeps everyone happy and more importantly, safe!
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Carl Bridges
RV7 N278RV
NOW FLYING
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08-15-2011, 05:41 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 51
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Proximity to the runway
When I learned to fly in the early 70's I was taught that every normal landing was practice for an engine-out landing. The goal was to stay within gliding range of the runway not becasue the engione might quit, but because if you had to make a forced landing due to engine failure, you knew how to set up the approach so you reached the runway without help from the engine. That's not possible if you are following someone on a 5 mile final. So you maintain power and make your turns to position yourself for a landing with the proper spacing. Next time when you are alone in the pattern make that simulated engine out approach.
My 2 cents.
John Ciolino
RV-8
N894Y
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08-15-2011, 05:54 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wilsonville, OR
Posts: 453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbosaaber
Been years since I've worked tower but a right 270 to base to follow traffic might work here. Keeps everyone happy and more importantly, safe!
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The problem with this at an non-towered airport is that you may have traffic behind you without a radio and you may get a surprise when you turn back in. Going back out and re-entering the pattern on a 45 would be the safest method.
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Trevor Conroy CFII, MEI
Airbus Pilot
N781TD
RV-7
First Flight - April 12, 2015
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