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  #11  
Old 08-15-2011, 03:53 PM
aerhed aerhed is offline
 
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Default Right on Don

Don is thinking straight. With traffic, I think everyone should be flying the same pattern. Otherwise how is everyone gonna know how to sequence and where to look. This glide thing is way overdone. By that logic it would be unsafe to ever leave the runway environment. Much safer to make your best fit into the pattern traffic than to worry about glide distance. Surprises me to hear anyone think otherwise.
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2011, 04:18 PM
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rocketbob rocketbob is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed View Post
Much safer to make your best fit into the pattern traffic than to worry about glide distance. Surprises me to hear anyone think otherwise.
This is simply not good advice to follow.

Almost 20 years ago I had a 172 I was renting quit running on downwind due to a mag problem (H2AD dual mag worn cam). Back in '03 I helped pull another 172 from a field that got totalled 200 ft from the runway when the student pilot pulled the mixture instead of the carb heat and didn't realize what he had done but was sufficiently distant where he couldn't make the runway..too wide of a pattern. Amazing he walked away from the wreck.

These practical lessons taught me in no uncertain terms that low, slow, and too far out is not a good place to be.
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Last edited by rocketbob : 08-15-2011 at 04:21 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-15-2011, 04:20 PM
bkthomps bkthomps is offline
 
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always assume the other guy is dumber than you, and give way/yield
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  #14  
Old 08-15-2011, 04:29 PM
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Alan Carroll Alan Carroll is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8RV View Post
KEEP YOUR TRAFFIC PATTERN WITHIN GLIDING DISTANCE IN CASE YOUR ENGINE DIES.
Whenever I hear this I think of the "OX-5 Club", which was made up of pilots who spent time flying behind Curtis OX-5 engines. The distinguishing features of the OX-5 seem to have been high weight, low power, and a tendency to stop working while in flight. My primary instructor was a member of this club, and had made at least one forced landing behind an OX-5. She was also somewhat obsessive about keeping potential landing areas within reach, whether in the pattern or during cruise.

I have often wondered to what extent the warning to "stay within gliding distance of the runway" reflects the real failure probability of "modern" aircraft engines, versus the lore passed down from the early days of aviation?
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  #15  
Old 08-15-2011, 04:43 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Even if you ignore the gliding range bit of my calculations, the 500 ft. AGL turn to final from 2 miles out would put you below a standard 3 dregree VASI slope.

Normal approaches probably should be done at or above the 3 degree slope, rather than a "drag it in from the boonies" final...

Part of the "Fly Neighborly" approach.
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  #16  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:09 PM
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pazmanyflyer pazmanyflyer is offline
 
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Have not seen it yet but why not do a 360 back to downwind? That's what a controller might give you.
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  #17  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:24 PM
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TCONROY TCONROY is offline
 
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As an active CFI at KUAO, I would suggest to my students to never turn final if another aircraft is on final approach. If the aircraft on final is 5 miles out and all they give is an N-number, you have no idea how fast they are moving. We have a lot of jet traffic at UAO, so 5-miles out is pretty quick for the Falcon 900EX that is based there. Always communicate with the other traffic first. If it's a C-150/172 on final, 5 miles out, than ask if you can sneak in. If you can't get in front of the traffic on final and you don't want to extend your downwind, perform a right (or left) turn and re-enter the pattern on a 45 for the downwind leg. Be sure to communicate your maneuver to ensure any other traffic on the 45 inbound knows to look for you.
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  #18  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:28 PM
turbosaaber turbosaaber is offline
 
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Default Right 270 to base.

Been years since I've worked tower but a right 270 to base to follow traffic might work here. Keeps everyone happy and more importantly, safe!
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  #19  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:41 PM
John Ciolino John Ciolino is offline
 
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Default Proximity to the runway

When I learned to fly in the early 70's I was taught that every normal landing was practice for an engine-out landing. The goal was to stay within gliding range of the runway not becasue the engione might quit, but because if you had to make a forced landing due to engine failure, you knew how to set up the approach so you reached the runway without help from the engine. That's not possible if you are following someone on a 5 mile final. So you maintain power and make your turns to position yourself for a landing with the proper spacing. Next time when you are alone in the pattern make that simulated engine out approach.

My 2 cents.

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  #20  
Old 08-15-2011, 05:54 PM
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TCONROY TCONROY is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbosaaber View Post
Been years since I've worked tower but a right 270 to base to follow traffic might work here. Keeps everyone happy and more importantly, safe!
The problem with this at an non-towered airport is that you may have traffic behind you without a radio and you may get a surprise when you turn back in. Going back out and re-entering the pattern on a 45 would be the safest method.
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