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  #1  
Old 07-11-2011, 02:03 AM
Sig600 Sig600 is offline
 
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Location: KRTS
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Default Best EI setup for the money

I've been reading and talking to guys for a long time on this subject, and have gotten 50 different opinions. I understand the pro's/con's of the different variations (emag, pmag, lightspeed, slick, etc) but I can't come to any conclusion on how to setup the ignition based on the options or real data. Dual Pmags, one Pmag one slick, or one Pmag one Lightspeed are the three combos I've come down to...

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:45 AM
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Capflyer Capflyer is offline
 
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Default Electroair

Don't forget to look at the Electroair EI. It has been around for a few years and just recently STC'd for numerous aircraft. I had Lightspeed on my previous RV and prefer the Electroair. Easy installation, very smooth, performs great, and no maintenance.

The problem you are probably finding is real performance gains are difficult to measure because most people have different engine configurations and have no baseline to compare an EI to dual mags or another EI since they have been flying only with the EI since day one. On my RV4 I added the Electoair after flying on dual Slick mags. I gained about .5 gph in hard flying and 1 gph in leaned cruise. The engine runs so much smoother that I can easily run 25deg LOP without detonation and pick up another .25 gph savings over leaned ROP cruise flight while only giving up around 10kts of airspeed. Although not easy to measure it was pretty obvious I picked up some HP as well.
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:50 AM
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GusBiz GusBiz is offline
 
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Default Jon Johanson's choice

A little while ago I spoke to Jon and he recommended

Lightspeed http://www.lsecorp.com/

But then again it is perhpas just one mans opinion like anyone of us.
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  #4  
Old 07-11-2011, 05:55 AM
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marchudson marchudson is offline
 
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Location: East Texas
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Default

This is what I did. Not necessarily right Lightspeed on one side with a mag on the other.

Reasoning: Wanted to have the advantage of an electronic ignition system for timing advancement under various conditions. Wanted to have a magneto for it's decades of proven reliability.

Additionally, if I'm away from home base and the EI dies, chances are I'm not going to be able to get it fixed however, you can get a magneto fixed almost anywhere.

Hope this helps
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2011, 06:32 AM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Look at this.

This new ignition system was shown here last year, built by another experimenter:

http://www.g3ignition.com/

I lost electrical power earlier this year and worried about my Lightspeed dying on me but the battery stayed up long enough.

This G 3 system reverts back to a mag, should the electronics go TU. A good alternative, IMO.

Best,
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2011, 07:43 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig600 View Post
I've been reading and talking to guys for a long time on this subject, and have gotten 50 different opinions. I understand the pro's/con's of the different variations (emag, pmag, lightspeed, slick, etc) but I can't come to any conclusion on how to setup the ignition based on the options or real data. Dual Pmags, one Pmag one slick, or one Pmag one Lightspeed are the three combos I've come down to...

Thoughts?
Go to this site
http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
and read the very long reports on this subject. Maybe it will help to arrive at a decision.

I concluded from the reports if you fly mostly below 10,000' mags work just fine. One CAFE comment indicated that up to 8500' mags may be better.

Anyway, I've been with EI (Jeff Rose Electroair) and liked it. But that was with the Cozy MKVI where most flying was up around 12,000'. Oh yea, the engine does start quicker but it also kicks back on the starter gear once in a while necessitating a fly wheel change due to a broken cog. That happens when voltage drops to a point where EI looses its brain. A wire wound starter will go a long way to prevent this from happening. A very reliable electric system is also a must to keep the thing happy and the engine running on EI. Don't believe the fuel burn hype, the Lycoming engines need fuel to produce HP. EI may be a tiny bit more efficient but it isn't what is claimed. For better or worse, EI also changes CHT and EGT temperatures from what you see with mags. Some believe EGT's are too hot causing early exhaust system failures. The jury is also out on what running at 30-36 degrees advance does to the valves, the Lycoming system was designed to run at 24-25 advance.

I'm on 2 Slicks for now and doing just fine. If one quits, I may go to one of the EI systems. They all work but I am partial to Electroair.
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  #7  
Old 07-11-2011, 04:21 PM
elippse elippse is offline
 
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Location: Arroyo Grande, CA
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Default

It is necessary to advance the timing when running less than maximum MAP, due to throttle retard or higher altitude, since the amount of A-F charge in the cylinder is lower and takes longer to burn. The optimum ignition timing is when the peak pressure occurs at about 15? ATDC, so to get this you must ignite at earlier and earlier degrees as the charge decreases. That is why an EI will give more power and lower fuel burn. If you have fixed timing the peak pressure will take place much beyond the optimum giving more fuel burning as the valves open and higher CHTs and EGTs. Which do you think will be harder on the exhaust valves?
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  #8  
Old 07-11-2011, 06:40 PM
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G3i Ignition G3i Ignition is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elippse View Post
It is necessary to advance the timing when running less than maximum MAP, due to throttle retard or higher altitude, since the amount of A-F charge in the cylinder is lower and takes longer to burn. The optimum ignition timing is when the peak pressure occurs at about 15? ATDC, so to get this you must ignite at earlier and earlier degrees as the charge decreases. That is why an EI will give more power and lower fuel burn. If you have fixed timing the peak pressure will take place much beyond the optimum giving more fuel burning as the valves open and higher CHTs and EGTs. Which do you think will be harder on the exhaust valves?
I totally agree with advancing a single spark system on the lower MAP. However, light the air/fuel mixture with multiple sparks, the same amount of btu?s produced will happen in a shorter window of time. Basically, light a piece of paper on one corner, x-amount of time to burn completely. Now light all 4 corners, a complete burn in a much shorter time period. With the same amount of btu?s produced. Another perfect example of flame propagation is when a (L/R) mag drop is performed. Its not because the ignition system is weak, just poor flame travel at peak cylinder pressure at that rpm and low MAP. These are some of the topics that I will be discussing @ AirVenture 2011. Hope to see ya there.

Thomas S.
AirVenture Presenter 07/26/11
http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1470
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  #9  
Old 07-11-2011, 07:51 PM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G3i Ignition View Post
.....Hope to see ya there.

Thomas S.
AirVenture Presenter 07/26/11
http://www.eaaapps.org/presenterinfo.aspx?id=1470
Your presentation is on my list, hope to be there.
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2011, 04:57 AM
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Capflyer Capflyer is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Oh yea, the engine does start quicker but it also kicks back on the starter gear once in a while necessitating a fly wheel change due to a broken cog. That happens when voltage drops to a point where EI looses its brain.
Perhaps a thread drift here on David's experience above. When I installed my system I elected to go with the key switch option instead of the standard toggle switch on/off option. My right mag was replaced with the Electroair since my left has the impulse coupling. When I would do a mag check on the right (now the EI) then back to on I'd get a huge kick back as the system powered itself back on and going through left where the mag was being grounded out momentarily. I switched the leads on the key switch between L & R and have not had an issue since. The brain box takes about 1 second to power up so switching it on with no power on the mag caused the problem.

The Cafe Foundation articles David mentioned are very good but dated. Definitely worth the read. Also check out each of the EI's sites where they have a good amount of information on how their systems work.
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