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View Poll Results: How well does your Andair F.I. boost pump work?
I installed an Andair Boost pump in my flying airplane and it works fine. 11 11.96%
I installed an Andair Boost pump but am not flying yet. 28 30.43%
I installed an Andair Boost pump and it did not work. 3 3.26%
I tested my Andair Boost pump before installation and it did not work. 2 2.17%
Andair replaced my bad boost pump but the 2nd one works fine. 2 2.17%
I am flying behind a different brand of boost pump. 29 31.52%
I installed a different boost pump but am not flying. 17 18.48%
I installed a different boost pump and it did not work. 0 0%
Voters: 92. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 05-04-2011, 06:22 PM
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Scherminator Scherminator is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Whitby, Ontario
Posts: 63
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Thanks Owen & Andy, its good to hear from the suppliers on issues such as these. As one of the early adopters (via the groupbuy), I am interested in upgrading to the latest spec - I belive I have an email in to you on this very subject this morning.

I am curious on the details of the design changes made since that batch, and what drove those changes.

Thanks for addressing this openly.
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  #12  
Old 05-04-2011, 06:29 PM
AirbusPilot AirbusPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santiago, Chile
Posts: 447
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I bought I think the first or one of the first Andair fuel pump that Owen sold at sun n fun 2009, he told me that they have just one plane flying with their pump, his company plane so he gave me 5 years warranty. I have been flying for 1 year and 190 hour with this pump without any issue but with the information that I have read here I will want an upgrade.

I will contact Andair and let you know
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Flying phase II RV-8 (SCSE) Serial Number 83290, Tail Number CC-AJC
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  #13  
Old 05-04-2011, 07:38 PM
mcencula mcencula is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Delaware, OH
Posts: 435
Default Fault tolerance?

One thing that concerns me about the Andair setup compared to the AFP setup is that in the installations I've seen, there appear to be no bypass lines around a clogged filter or failed pump. If I understand AFP's setup correctly, I believe that's what all the spaghetti of lines are for.

It would be nice if the AFP setup had all those lines incorporated into a single manifold block, but failing that, I'd rather have the spaghetti of lines than an unforgiving failure mode.

Edit: I see the Andair has an internal bypass (although it would be nice to know more detail about that); however the filter bypass still seems missing. This thread discusses it as well.
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Last edited by mcencula : 05-04-2011 at 07:48 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2011, 08:29 PM
Kinnerhatz Kinnerhatz is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Posts: 30
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I hope that Andair can provide the serial number at which each upgrade was introduced.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2011, 12:13 AM
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rcpaisley rcpaisley is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Upland, CA
Posts: 286
Default Filter bypass

Mike,
In all fairness to Andair, there is no filter bypass on the AFP pump, the Andair pump or our pump. The line you see that goes to the input side of the AFP filter is the return line from the fuel pressure regulator. This line can not flow in reverse to bypass the filter.

The filters used in these applications are large hole screen mesh filters that are meant only to catch large particulates. They typically are not a clog point unless you have a ton of junk in your fuel system.

That being said there are people who take the design a step further and use a separate filter in-line on each tank supply line before the selector valve. The idea being that if a filter on one tank supply line gets clogged, you still have the other tank with it's separate filter available as a source of fuel.
Our kit comes with two fuel filters. Originally intended as a spare for your first annual, we have seen quite a few people utilize the second filter as described above. Is this overkill? Good question. The system will work either way.

Robert Paisley
EFII Boost Pump Kit ( http://www.flyefii.com/add_components/BPM/BPM.htm )
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  #16  
Old 05-05-2011, 03:59 AM
Andair LTD Andair LTD is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Havant, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scherminator View Post
Thanks Owen & Andy, its good to hear from the suppliers on issues such as these. As one of the early adopters (via the groupbuy), I am interested in upgrading to the latest spec - I belive I have an email in to you on this very subject this morning.

I am curious on the details of the design changes made since that batch, and what drove those changes.

Thanks for addressing this openly.
After testing, our proceedure then was to clear the pumps of test fluid. They were blown out using a high pressure airline, this was to remove all traces of test fluid ready for pumping through with preserving oil. We found on this occasion the pump that had passed all the tests that we had laid down ie priming, performance etc wouldn't prime and suck up the oil. This pump was then investigated to find what had changed it was found that in blowing out the end of the pump with the air had dislodged the o-rings and springs on the bypass.
This was then considered that if we could do this under our test scheme then there was a possibility that the "O" ring could lift off it's seat. The solution was to sit the "O" ring in a shallow groove, this is how the current design was established. It also employs the use of larger o-rings. For added scuritity the springs are bonded to the shuttle.
The new design was tested with high pressure air in the same way as before and found to be able to withstand sustained air pressure, all was all fine.


Quote:
mcencula Fault tolerance?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One thing that concerns me about the Andair setup compared to the AFP setup is that in the installations I've seen, there appear to be no bypass lines around a clogged filter or failed pump. If I understand AFP's setup correctly, I believe that's what all the spaghetti of lines are for.

It would be nice if the AFP setup had all those lines incorporated into a single manifold block, but failing that, I'd rather have the spaghetti of lines than an unforgiving failure mode.

Edit: I see the Andair has an internal bypass (although it would be nice to know more detail about that); however the filter bypass still seems missing. This thread discusses it as well.
That's correct, the Andair Pump has it's own internal bypass and pressure relief. It wouldn't be difficult to manufacture a bypass for the filter in case of a catastrophic clog of the filter, but then we go into issues of 'do we want to be putting contaminated fuel into the engine'
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  #17  
Old 05-05-2011, 07:43 AM
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Phil Phil is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
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Andy/Owen,

When did the Pumps change? I think mine is the newer style since we talked about this issue at OSH. I just want to make sure.

Thanks,
Phil
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  #18  
Old 05-05-2011, 08:34 AM
FrankFlies FrankFlies is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 3
Default whew!

I'm even happier we went with the EFII boost pump after reading all this!

-Frank
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  #19  
Old 05-05-2011, 09:34 AM
Andair LTD Andair LTD is offline
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Havant, Hampshire, UK
Posts: 9
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The new system took effect on serial number 30453. If your pump is before that number it may be returned for upgrade.
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  #20  
Old 05-05-2011, 10:30 AM
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pmccoy pmccoy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Orange County CA
Posts: 646
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Quote:
The new system took effect on serial number 30453. If your pump is before that number it may be returned for upgrade.
Thank you. Do we need an RMA number to send the older units back in?

Have you figured out what the cost will be for the upgrade? Shipping/new parts/labor/etc. adds up. I am not looking for a freebee, just a fair price to get the improved design.
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