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  #1  
Old 04-30-2011, 01:42 AM
xblueh2o xblueh2o is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 852
Default Just starting out. Basic questions.

Ok,
First post here and I have many many questions but I will try and keep it short and on target. I searched the general forums for a while but didn't find any good solid answers. I have also looked at Vans site and found nothing explicit. I figured I would ask here in the 8 forum since everyone here would know the answers and more importantly that is the model I am considering.

1. When purchasing a kit (QB or not, doesn't matter. Or does it?) Do you purchase the entire kit at once or do people get the empennage, finish it then order the wings etc etc on down the line?

2. How do people manage the expensive bits (engine, avionics) and still manage to not get divorced, put kids through college, not end up living in a van down by the river?

Did you just throw a few large chunks of money at your project or is it more like a slow steady drain? I am not worried about time or ability. I have built cars and planes before (for other people) but my fiscally conservative side is rearing it's ugly head when I start thinking about this project. Just wondering how the average person does it.
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:43 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Welcome Sam

1. You can buy whatever you like, when you like but many of the builders will order the next item when they see they're nearing the end. Also consider Van's waiting time...contact them for that. Shipping costs favor you if several packages come in the same shipment.

2. A lot of us DID get divorced during the build...unfortunately. Some wives adjust/accept it better than others and there's a bunch of posts on that subject as well. A lot of us bought used takeout engines with some time left on them or rebuild them ourselves. Keep in mind that TBO is not mandatory...many of the Lycomings have run 3000 hours and more...perfectly legal too.

3. It will be a real balancing act so that you don't end up in a tent .."down by the river" as far as a happy wife, college for the kids and so on...have some real heart-to-heart talks with your wife and kids regarding all of this. The more all of them can be on board, the easier life will be.

How much money you throw at it depends on how much free cash you have...what kind of budget.

Welcome again....down South we know..."If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!"

BTW, my kids live in Fremont and Stockton,
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Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2011, 07:40 AM
Experimental Chaos's Avatar
Experimental Chaos Experimental Chaos is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fairfield, CA
Posts: 120
Default Come on by, get your feet wet

I don?t live far from you (Fairfield) if you want to get the practice kit, and come over to use my tools, to put it together, please feel free. You can see, and critique my project, an RV-7 getting closer and closer to ordering the finish kit. So, I still have the, (gulp), panel and engine/prop to purchase. The nice thing is you don?t have to spend all the money at once, but we?re talking about some pretty big bites, none the less.

If you?re not already tooled up for the project, you can spend a bit there as well. I?ve been told that I?m a bit queer for tools (by one of my co-workers, where I used to work) so if you come over, you can try out a lot of different stuff, and weigh the merits vs the cost, and decide if some of the ?luxury? tools are worth the cost.

So, anyway, drop me a line if you want to come by,
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Mike Mason
Fairfield/Vacaville, CA
RV-7 QB Working on Wings, Fuselage & Sanity
VAF 1351
AOPA 04067557
EAA 837577
mgmason1911@gmail.com
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:23 AM
RV8RIVETER's Avatar
RV8RIVETER RV8RIVETER is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1T7, Kestrel Airpark , Texas
Posts: 773
Default

I bought each kit at a time when needed. Better for me, no debts. The good part is I got the new kit change upgrades as they came out.

As for the family. I got married 4 months after starting the tail kit. Since then we have added a pair of great 7 yr old twins and have built and moved to a new home. Just remember where your priorities are; for me it is family #1. Kids only grow up once and the airplane is not going to keep you warm on a cold night or take care of you when you come home from the hospital.

It takes longer but makes for a happier journey. I should finish up this summer, just trying to get the cowl ready for paint. It has ONLY been 13 years for me.
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Wade Lively
-8, Flying!
N100WL
IO-360A3B6D, WW 200RV
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2011, 08:32 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default Welcome to VAF!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by xblueh2o View Post
Ok,

First post here
Sam, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

As to the question of buying kits all together, or one at a time-----many folks buy/build a simple and less expensive part, usually the tail, first as a test case to see if they can handle it. Cuts the expense down if they turn out to have 10 thumbs

You state that you have built planes before, so it may be wise for you to order as much as you can afford and hopefully save on shipping costs.

For the big $$ stuff------start putting something aside every paycheck in an aviation fund, and keep your eye on these forums, good deals happen here often, and they do not last long. Sometimes only minutes

I would wait for the avionics purchase as long as you can, the pace of advancement is just too fast, and things get "dated" rather fast. Never too early to start considering the overall design, but leave the purchase out there------unless one of those good deals comes up, then .............??

Good luck, hang on and enjoy the ride, there is a lot of info gonna be comming your way.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2011, 04:53 PM
DaAV8R DaAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 747
Default Building

I am buying each kit as I go. I think I read on Vans site before I started that you probably won't do all the things you do now and also build a plane. I'm finding that to be very true. It sounds like you have completed other big projects so you are well aware that to maintain progress on a project this size does take a real commitment of time.

I am on a mission to build my plane as inexpensively as possible. I have purchased an engine core and intend to go thru it myself. I have collected many gauges and a radio for almost nothing. I currently have less than $2,000.00 in the engine core, most of the gauges and a good com radio. It is possible to build on the cheap if you keep a sharp lookout for bargains.

Good luck in your decision.
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Robert Williams
Lee's Summit, MO
RV-8 - Empennage & Wings Done
Working on Fuse
O-360-A1A

1946 Cessna 120
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:03 PM
xblueh2o xblueh2o is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 852
Default

All good info. Thanks for sharing everyone.
More questions.

1. What sort of insurance (if any) do you/did you carry on your project while it was under construction?

2. Talk to me about weight. What did your finished product weigh? I am trying to get a realistic idea of how much weight I can expect to be able to lift with a full load of fuel.
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:42 PM
DaAV8R DaAV8R is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 747
Default Insurance and Weight

Insurance - I hear alot about folks buying not in motion insurance for their build. Some of the figures I've heard seem high to me. For not much more that the premiums which have been mentioned to me you can insure a flying plane with a greater hull value. At least for a while, you might protect your investment by spreading out the parts as you finish them. Some at home, some at your buddies hanger, etc.. They won't all burn down. It they do, take it as a sign that you were not destined to fly the thing . I wonder if we couldn't just add it to the homeowners policy.

Weight - I'm nowhere near flying but a couple of planes I've asked about had empties from 1050 with a fixed pitch to 1200 with all the goodies and a constant speed. It seems like if you get carried away buying stuff and spending money, you run the risk of ending up heavy.
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Robert Williams
Lee's Summit, MO
RV-8 - Empennage & Wings Done
Working on Fuse
O-360-A1A

1946 Cessna 120
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2011, 06:50 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default Good questions!

I bought each kit as I needed them. By the time I was finished, my total debt on the -9 was around $360 on one credit card.

My 1st engine (135 hp O-290-D2) came from Barnstormers for $3500 w/ 0 SMOH (In 1959) and worked great right up until I ran it into a trailer. The slightly more expensive 180 HP O-360 ECi kit engine was paid for by my insurance company. Don't worry about the engine just yet. If you find a great deal, grab it, but otherwise, you can wait. A friend bought what he thought would be a great deal on a core and by the time he is ready to put it back together he will have as much in it as a zero time ECi kit engine (These are Lycoming clone engines made up of PMA'ed parts.), roughly $15K.

As for the wife thing, you have to have the right person. I ordered my tail kit before I met my wife and it arrived a week after our first date. The fuselage kit was ordered the week before our wedding, so it has always been in our life together. In fact, she bucked or drove at least one third of the rivets in the plane.

When it came time for the radios, transponder, etc., I would wait until I needed some small item from Aircraft Spruce and purchase a larger item at that same time. Thus, there was no big hit for avionics.

That said, don't buy anything for the panel until the last minute. The EFIS stuff is changing so fast, anything you buy today will be outdated when you install it, and way outdated when you do your first flight.

As for empty weights, I have a list of 41 RV's and the average empty weight for that sample is 1109 pounds. The lightest is 1035 pounds and has a 160 hp O-320 and the heaviest is 1330 pounds and has a 260 hp IO-540. (Moving up one row shows a 200 HP IO-360 RV-8 that came in at 1178 pounds. Dropping the Super Eight out brings the average weight down 1104 pounds.)

Congrats on taking the first step. Remember Grasshopper, the journy of 16,000 rivet starts with the first one.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2011, 07:01 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default Builder's insurance

Do a search on "buider's insurance" and see what comes up. (Time to get used to using that function as there is a TON of info on this site.)

Most home owner's policies won't cover airplanes. Mine did but get a letter in writing stating that it covers your project.

Many people don't even bother with insurance until the value gets up there. It is your project, do what you are comfortable with.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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