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03-24-2011, 03:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 371
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car gps
Try using your auto gps going down the road. If you like the touch screen then this unit might work. I have to stop to set up my auto gps. But then thats a old man thing.
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03-24-2011, 07:36 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: jacksonville il
Posts: 97
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Some of the replies about touchscreens and the comparisons to tinya@@ cellphones keyboards make no sense to me. I've got the Aera and I used it in the rt.seat of a 421 last summer for about 20 hrs and several of the trips had some turbulence. Granted I was'nt flying and trying to run the Aera but It was yoke mounted because the 421 owner said I could go with him when he had trips last august. He wanted to test his "cellphone fingers" on the touch screen. He bought his after one trip and I mounted it on rt. yoke to get my impression and I found it to be just as good as anchoring yourself to the "grab bar" some think exists on the 430/530s
__________________
Tom CassonN806TC{resv} [] tcrv7@yahoo.comCessna 120 N76137
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03-24-2011, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 97
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Tactile buttons and knobs
I'm going through my instrument training. One of the things my instructor has drilled into me is to keep your scan going. If you need to adjust something, I put my hand on the device that will be adjusted (knob or button), make a change, glance over and see if that change was the result you wanted. With a 430/530, I can feel the buttons and knobs without looking, all the while keeping my scan going.
Let's say I'm nearing the FAF, and approach hands me off to the tower. With a standard audio panel or a 430/530, I can switch COMs or activate the standby frequency just by touch. With the GTN devices, I have to take my eyes off the scan, look at the screen, and possibly navigate to the right place in the menus to make the change. I don't want my eyes off the instruments at that point, especially when I'm still in the soup.
I agree with others, I don' think this will have much uptake in the experimental market, at least until the 430/530 is not for sale anymore and only then if the price comes down in the same ballpark as the 430/530.
__________________
Aaron Sims
RV-10 (2015 Bronze Lindy)
RV-6A (sold)
Home Field: Mallards Landing (GA04)
Locust Grove, GA
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03-24-2011, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego, CA, U.S.A.
Posts: 770
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Tactile feedback
Touch screens have the benefit of much broader flexibility than physical buttons to support complex human-intuitive user inputs (pan & scan, pointing to something, dragging something over...). However, a fundamental limitation with touch screens (at least the current generation of touch screens) is that they lack tactile feedback. The user therefore has to rely more heavily on vision. And this greater need for visual attention to the device can pose a challenge and increase user workload under a heavy multitasking environment, like driving in congested traffic, or flying an instrument approach. And an unsteady platform (a rough ride, turbulence) can further exacerbate the problem.
These issues are well understood in industry, and are generally considered as trade-offs when selecting a particular technology for a new design. BTW, it's interesting to note that newer technologies are already starting to supersede touch screens as primary user input devices to get around this problem. One such technology is voice command. Another technology that is still a bit more exotic is haptic touch screens, that can actually emulate various types of tactile feedback. Wouldn't surprise me if Garmin's skunk works is already working on such things toward their next generation of avionics (???).
For now, whether a conventional touch screen to replace physical buttons is a net benefit or net detriment to a piece of avionics like this, personally I can't say because I've never flown it. I'd reserve judgment, but I'd certainly hold off even considering equipping my airplane with one of these until I've had some first hand experience flying with one.
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03-24-2011, 08:59 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chandler, Arizona
Posts: 188
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New Garmin
Garmin is already in the works for Voice command on these new systems, it just isn't active yet?.
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03-24-2011, 09:00 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
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As a primary Garmin user for my avionics, I hate their monopoly in the business. It is too bad there isn't a REAL competition for their certified IFR system. The idea that I can not replace the battery in my 430 and have to send it in for large $$$$ is a good reason that I would jump ship in favor of competition.
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Mehrdad
N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
N825MS RV14A - IO390 - Flying
Dues paid
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03-24-2011, 09:24 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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What I want to know is how long before Amateur-Built aircraft are allowed to fly IFR with non-certified instruments. I'm sure the Dynon, GRT, MGL systems out there are the equal, performance-wise, to the Garmin systems. And any of the non-certified systems are better (IMO) than the steam gauges they replace. Heck, require redundancy if it's deemed necessary... Two Dynon's or a smaller one with the basics for backup. Since we're already allowed to fly non-certified aircraft VFR with non-certified equipment (a lot of which makes some certified VFR aircraft look like children's toys), it seems pretty silly that we aren't allowed to fly IFR with modern equipment that's easily as good, if not better, than the minimum required equipment to fly IFR.
[edit] It seems i've been misinformed and you may be able to fly IFR with non-certified equipment in homebuilts... If so, my mistake, but that makes it even more ridiculous that someone would want to pay the Garmin tax to install more than a handheld GPS in their panel. I love my Aera, at $800 it was the best bang-for-the-buck at the time. But $22000 for something 4x the size with a radio and transponder built-in? I really wish I had that kind of disposable income.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
Last edited by Snowflake : 03-24-2011 at 10:05 PM.
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03-24-2011, 09:49 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Hamburg, Michigan
Posts: 69
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From what I've seen, experimental acft are using them to fly IFR.......GRT, Dynon, MGL....
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03-25-2011, 04:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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All the time....
....in my -10 with a D100.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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03-25-2011, 05:02 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 269
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First. I don't believe you need certified GPS in route but you do need it for the approach, also I wonder if there will be a UPGRADE from the 430W to the 650? There's a large market for that, they did it with the 430 to 430W, if not Ill stay with my 430W as long as they support it.
__________________
Adam Silverstein
Technical Counselor Chapter 643
Flying RV-8 10/30/07
PAID 2021
Pittstown, New Jersey
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