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03-20-2011, 10:55 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
Let's move away from speculation and onward to education. Hose clamps are not forbidden in aviation, but there are details to safe use.
First, the common clamps in the photo are no longer used in auto and truck applications where long term reliability is required. They have a well known problem; the clamped rubber extrudes out through the slots over time, which results in a loss of clamp pressure.
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I am learning as much here from good friends as I have building the plane. Much appreciate all the good technical info provided here.
__________________
Mehrdad
N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
N825MS RV14A - IO390 - Flying
Dues paid
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03-20-2011, 10:56 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8R999
Where do you get all the neat diagrams????
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I draw them in a CAD program and post a screenshot.
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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03-20-2011, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylor
The assembly in the picture has two fuel injection pumps plumbed in parallel with each other and rubber hose with worm screw type hose clamps are clearly visible on both sides of the fuel pumps. The rubber hose and hose clamps are definitely used on the high pressure side of this particular assembly.
Skylor
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This is probably one of the many iterations of just trying to get 100lbs of **** in a 10lb box. I don't think there was a picture of the final assembly but if I remember everyone of those fittings came from the auto racing industry and are used extensively in auto racing. The clamps used were what was supplied with the barbs that were used and as far as I know they really served very little purpose as you could not remove those hoses once they were put on the barbs. They had to be cut off. The only two places we ever had leaks was in the area underneath the seat following and using Van's methods and we did have a leak were the fuel line connected to the rail. Tom fabricated us an excellent fitting and hose that solved this problem. The fuel lines were rated to 175PSI. I have tried to keep out of this but I can't anymore. I believe I know what happened to our airplane and could happen to ANYBODY'S airplane certified or experimental. I believe the way we built ours actually saved my daughters and my life. I am trying to stay civil with this. I have not talked to the NTSB since a couple days after the crash I will have to get in contact with them and I would be shocked if the true cause was ever publicly released.
__________________
Todd
N110TD
RV-10 Vesta V8 LS2/BMA EFIS/One formerly flying at 3J1 Hobbs stopped at 150 hours
Savannah, GA and Ridgeland, SC
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03-20-2011, 12:43 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Marion IA
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSwezey
I would be shocked if the true cause was ever publicly released.
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In the spirit of safety and education, I hope the above isn't true. Please find a way to help us improve our aircraft and save lives by somehow releasing the true cause.
I've learned a lot about fuel clamps from this thread.
__________________
Dave Gribble VAF #232
Building RV-9A N149DG (slider, IO-320, IFR)
Restored and Flying Beech Super III N3698Q
Marion IA
Struggling with fiberglass
There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings." Wilbur Wright, 1905
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03-20-2011, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSwezey
I believe I know what happened to our airplane and could happen to ANYBODY'S airplane certified or experimental.
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And that possible cause that has me at risk is.....?
Last edited by Ron Lee : 03-20-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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03-20-2011, 02:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
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Enlighten us
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSwezey
I have not talked to the NTSB since a couple days after the crash I will have to get in contact with them and I would be shocked if the true cause was ever publicly released.
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Todd,
I study every helicopter accident I can because of my medical helicopter flying job. I also study every RV event I can. I do this in an effort to learn so I can be as safe as possible.
Others have alluded to how important this issue is. Since this is a matter of public record please fill us in on the "true cause." I'm sure we will all learn. Especially those who are building/flying the 10.
Nobody has passed any judgement and I'm sure that will continue if the cause is released.
We are all very thankful there were no fatalities.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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03-20-2011, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sweden, 67" North
Posts: 68
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Sorry to hear about the loss of an RV-10, but im glad ure still with us today... How is it in the US, do the Experimental Aircraft need to be inspected by a lincesed Engineer or something similar during building process?
/Dennis
__________________
Dennis Isaksson
G?llivare, Sweden
Grew up with an RV-4, SE-XIO
Now: RV-8, Showplanes Fastback. #83218 Under construction, SE-XXO
Engine and avionic installation in progress
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03-20-2011, 09:44 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSwezey
I have tried to keep out of this but I can't anymore. I believe I know what happened to our airplane and could happen to ANYBODY'S airplane certified or experimental. I believe the way we built ours actually saved my daughters and my life. I am trying to stay civil with this. I have not talked to the NTSB since a couple days after the crash I will have to get in contact with them and I would be shocked if the true cause was ever publicly released.
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Todd,
I am glad you are all OK and that you have the luxury to discuss with us your point of view regarding your accident. But with all due respect...please don't make a post that makes the rest of us flying certified or experiment aircraft, as you mentioned, feel like our planes are going to explode at any minute and then leave us hanging without an answer. If you have a reasonable argument please present it to us.
__________________
Aaron Arvig
RV-9A
Empennage Done
Wings-In Progress
N568AK Reserved
SOLD?but I'll be back
Last edited by aarvig : 03-20-2011 at 09:47 PM.
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03-21-2011, 05:08 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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Hi Dennis..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis_I
Sorry to hear about the loss of an RV-10, but im glad ure still with us today... How is it in the US, do the Experimental Aircraft need to be inspected by a lincesed Engineer or something similar during building process?
/Dennis
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The airplane doesn't HAVE to be inspected during the build process but it's recommended. The EAA has tech inspectors that look at your airplane for free and make suggestions as to improvements and/or safety, during the build process.
We have DAR's (Designated Airworthiness Representatives) that do the final inspection for pay. They may or may not isue an airworthiness certificate, depending on what sort of faults they discover. Once these issues are corrected to his satisfaction, an airworthiness cert will then be issued.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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03-21-2011, 06:25 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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The Company "Design" ?
Things have changed no doubt but in my documentation for building our RV-6A there was only a little minimal sketch of a fuel system that did not satisfy the needs of our airplane and proposed some things that were unacceptable to me. The disclaimer of design responsibility for everything other than the basic airframe was very clear - I wouldn't want it any other way actually. The fuel system is a special deal and it was not enough to "follow the company direction and call it good." There are many threads in this forum presenting and debasing various fuel system approaches so you have to know there is no standard fuel system that will be found in most RVs. They address filters, gascollators, fuel valves, bulkhead fittings, solid lines running through rubber grommets in fuselage skins, distributed tanks without individual controls, venting, fuel quantity sensors, gauging, aux. pumps, primer systems, fuel/primer line selection, calibration, testing, etc. You have to think through the operational requirements as well as function, performance, long term reliability and maintainability on your individual airplane and make individual choices. The pitfalls are many and not every resulting system is going to be the same or perfect. It is not an easy task so calling attention to it for sensitivity purposes is probably a good thing but dictating design or restricting personal choices is not in my opinion.
Bob Axsom
Last edited by Bob Axsom : 03-22-2011 at 06:15 AM.
Reason: typo
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