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03-15-2011, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 863
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Tip to VANs: How to save money on paper bags
This is a follow-up on the (Mis)Identifying nutplates thread that goes beyond just nutplates.
I initially blamed myself rather than VANs on this mistake (see my blog) but after going through the thread's answers, I came to the conclusion that, at least for novice builders like me, there is no easy foolproof way to identify nutplates. My problem stemmed from the fact that VANs put in paper bag 2717-2 nutplates K1000-3, -4 & -06. The -4 is easy to identify because of the rivet holes spacing but -3 and -06 have the same spacing. What I suggest to VANs is: if you want to save money on paper bags, just mix items that cannot be misidentified like bolts with washers and nutplates, just one kind of each.
This may look like a joke but the logic is hard to beat:
What VANs has got with the RV-12 is a winner: easy to build, easy to fly.
This does not quite match the profile of previous RVs builders. The RV-12 targets a population that is less experienced in building and more interested in flying. If VANs wants to make these customers real happy, it has to ease the building process by trying to minimize their building mistakes, particularly the painful ones (ie, nutplates confusion). VANs' habit of putting different parts in one paper bag seems ludicrous in view of the cost of a kit vs cost of a paper bag but they may have their reasons that I am not in a position to challenge. Hence my suggestion... 
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03-15-2011, 12:11 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 398
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Over the past several weeks, there have been numerous posts regarding the confusion (especially, nut plates) and installation errors which first time builders have experienced. They have been vocal about it and shared their frustrations. I am a bit surprised that Van's has not been more pro active in correcting the problem directly, by making minor adjustments to the packaging process, it seems it would make identification less confusing and improve the quality of the kit product. The passive, default solution, seems to be with builder organization. How about a minor change to the packaging itself from Van's? Isn't that what these guys are suggesting? Instead, the fix is left up to the future builder.
Until this issue is resolved, I have decided to hold off on the purchase.
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03-15-2011, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hillboro, OR
Posts: 167
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Drift: This really isn't worth holding off on purchase, figuring out the nutplates is not too bad. I think on the entire plane, I messed up a single nutplate which was easily fixable by using a pulled rivet and a 90 degree drill. I had only this one instance of a problem, and I left all the stuff in the bag the whole time!
The best way to go about it is to just be careful about identifying parts! The plastic bins seem like a great idea, as well as using an identification plate. For the nutplates it would be as easy as figuring out the thread-type for all the screws (basically just a #6, #8, and a few others) and labeling a bunch of screws.
It really isn't as big of a deal as people here make it out to be. Does it suck? Sometimes. Is it worth not starting your build? Probably not.
__________________
RV-12: 331RV
Started 3/31/10
First Flight: 4/2/11
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03-15-2011, 12:36 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 398
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Thanks Erich,
Points well taken. Thanks for the advice.
Plan on starting my RV-12 kit this fall. Maybe by then, Van's will make some changes in packaging to reduce some of the confusion.
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03-15-2011, 12:46 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 863
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No reason to delay kit purchase!
I will chime with Erich and recommend not to delay purchase because of this kind of problem. I have lots of respect for the good work VANs is doing on the RV-12 kit like the packaging of the parts in the shipping crates, the instructions and the lead time for kit deliveries that are all without reproach. VANs as most small size companies is vulnerable to the economic conditions of our time and needs our support. This being said, there is always room for improvement, even in paper bagging!
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03-15-2011, 12:50 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Clearwater, Florida
Posts: 398
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Thank you Jean-Pierre.
Can hardly wait to get started. Sun n' Fun approaching!
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03-15-2011, 12:59 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog
This being said, there is always room for improvement, even in paper bagging!
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Have you considered the method of packaging hardware is done to facilitate things at the supply end of the pipeline, and not the end user???
Once I inventoried my tail kit, and determined all items were there, the very next thing I did was to open all the bags, and put all the various standard hardware into bins of like items. Oddball hardware went into its own bin.
At least for the RV 10, the plans call for a part by the spec, and not by a bag number, so why not save a lot of time down the line, and organize things the way they will be used???
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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03-15-2011, 01:21 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southern Michigan
Posts: 1,966
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I totally agree with Mike S. Get some of those small parts bins from your local discount big box store, and a Dymo label maker. Go through all your bags and put them away accordingly. It might take a few hours or more but the benefit is you will have everything organized and labeled, plus you become familiar with the many different small parts and hardware. I can't imagine a silly complaint like this would prevent someone from ordering a kit from Van's. 
__________________
David C.
Howell, MI
RV-10: #41686 Under Construction
RV-9A: #90949 Under Construction
RV-10: #40637 Completed/Sold 2016
Cozy MKIV:#656 Completed/Sold 2007
"Donor Exempt" but donated through Dec. 2020
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03-15-2011, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Perth, Scotland
Posts: 494
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Make a learning experience
As a complete novice, I had no idea what all this hardware was. I took every bag at inventory time and split it into identical components. It took a little time, but I learned a lot about shapes and sizes.
As for filing, I bought an industrial pack of envelopes and put just one type of component in each, and wrote on the outside what it was. The envelopes got filed in four shoe boxes. No expense for plastic boxes and Dymo. Envelopes got chucked as they were emptied.
I never had an instance of using the wrong part, and never lost anything. Some basic inventory control really does save time. BTW I'm no hero, I made all my mistakes doing other things wrong ;-)
Cheers...Keith
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03-15-2011, 02:12 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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One of the bags that gave me fits was the plastic one with a zillion washers in it of different sizes. I just ran a google image search on each one to figure out what was what.
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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