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03-14-2011, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
Well.............
By now, you must know my feelings on the subject....
This forum, the AOPA forum, and a few sim forums..
I've often said, that if you get an instructor who shuts off the GPS with a smirk on their face.............then throw them out!!!
No personal offense, but when I see instructors referring to GPS as "gizmo's", I get entirely bent out of shape...
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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Sorry but in 17 years and 26 countries of flying, you know the one thing that's never failed? A paper chart. If you can't aviate using the basics/fundamentals without a GPS, you have a serious deficiency in your abilities as a professional aviator. And I never had a student fail for their lack of ability to use the panel mount GPS. Nor did I ever have a student get lost.
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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03-14-2011, 10:20 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out West!
Posts: 80
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Its amazing how much exploration was done centuries ago with nothing more than a sextant and the stars...and a hand drawn map. Sometimes getting lost is the best part!!
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03-14-2011, 11:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 126
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Posted it to FB, I have some serious Ipad fans to harrass
__________________
Dan Wright
Building RV-12 #511 in the Mojave desert (1976W reserved)
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03-15-2011, 12:03 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sutter Creek, CA
Posts: 842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson
Sorry...........but it doesn't fly...
I see no purpose in turning off my XM weather, precision airspace boundries, exact fuel management, current TFR's, winds, altimeter settings.................and if **** hits the fan, terrain & obstacle mapping.
As you can see, at 60 years of age, I no longer believe in "old school" navigation, just for the sake of it. However, I do, and will carry my sectionals to.... follow along, and will never blindly follow a magenta line.
L.Adamson --- RV6A
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Not one posting has advocated not having the best equipment and most up to date information available. Please remember that the initial drift of this thread was created by my posting of the silly AOPA video which addressed pilots not maintaining good SA. Apparently, there are others who agreed with my position.
The question is this; when all the above mentioned "gizmos" fail, are we as pilots ready to deal with it? Or, does it become an emergency? As some have stated, we enjoy having the electronics, but CHOOSE to keep our skills honed on the basics. If you don't, that is your decision.
It was not that many years ago that on a Jo'burg to Kuala Lumpur flight, I found myself faced with the reality that our nav system had somehow failed us. Oh, we were on the magenta line, but the VOR that the RMI was pointing at, was not in the right place! By pulling out the low altitude chart and using some triangulating of VOR's, I was able to figure out my exact position and the heading that I needed to get back on course. Luckily, we were only about 45 minutes from the terminal environment, and everything worked out fine. So, can everything fail? Yes, it sure can, and all those "old school" navigation skills will come in handy.
As far as your other statement goes, if I was instructing/checking and a student threw a hissy fit for turning off the GPS, you would not have to throw me out, as I would already be gone! What do I care? It was not me that needed the dual/checkride!
__________________
Mark Ohlau
RV-6 N506MM VAF #1410
2017 Donation Made
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03-15-2011, 05:33 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sig600
Sorry but in 17 years and 26 countries of flying, you know the one thing that's never failed? A paper chart. If you can't aviate using the basics/fundamentals without a GPS, you have a serious deficiency in your abilities as a professional aviator. And I never had a student fail for their lack of ability to use the panel mount GPS. Nor did I ever have a student get lost.
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I've had paper charts fail--in a DC3, if you don't have a tight grip with the window open--out they go. There's also, fold marks, overwrites, etc. Also, traffic scan lost while unfolding and orienting yourself. (Do you remember getting route changes in non autopilot aircraft--altitude and heading deviations out the ying-yang)
I do get your point but I think you're missing Adamsons which is simply that we prioritize TOO MUCH on E6Bs and dead reckoning skills in training that time has passed by. If the plane gets hit by lightning, everything dies, including the battery operated devices, (and the charts catch fire)==both highly unlikely..Are we able to find our way to the ground and an airport? That's all we need--not the ability to circumnavigate the globe with a compass and watch (both which can fail also).
These "gizmos" are actually safety devices that have kept many an aviator from being lost and disoriented. The "good" old days were filled with lost pilots who ran out fuel.
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03-15-2011, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 307
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Who is their audience here. I'm just saying.
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03-15-2011, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: KRTS
Posts: 1,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetjok
As far as your other statement goes, if I was instructing/checking and a student threw a hissy fit for turning off the GPS, you would not have to throw me out, as I would already be gone! What do I care? It was not me that needed the dual/checkride!
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^^^ This ^^^
__________________
Next?, TBD
IAR-823, SOLD
RV-8, SOLD
RV-7, SOLD
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03-15-2011, 11:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California City, CA
Posts: 18
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I'm sorry, but to me there just is no place in the cockpit for non-aviation consumer electronics. They simply aren't built to aviation quality standards. If airplane parts failed as often as the cheap electronic junk we all own, then airplanes would be crashing left, right and center, and nobody would be brave enough to fly. Let's face it, the cheap prices you get on electronics are the result of a "use it and throw it away" engineering philosophy. They're not built to be relied upon.
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03-16-2011, 12:08 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Oaks, MN
Posts: 341
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I do plan to use my iPad 2 in the cockpit...as a backup for my backup. I like having it for all the functionality of Foreflight and the situational awareness it brings but I, nor my plane, will rely on it for anything significant.
__________________
Peter Fruehling
St. Paul, Minnesota - Based at ANE
RV-4 - Sold
RV-7 - Sold
RV-10 - Partners in N829EC
2019 Dues Paid - Have you paid yours?
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03-16-2011, 12:19 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ridgecrest, CA
Posts: 126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertFlier
I'm sorry, but to me there just is no place in the cockpit for non-aviation consumer electronics. They simply aren't built to aviation quality standards. If airplane parts failed as often as the cheap electronic junk we all own, then airplanes would be crashing left, right and center, and nobody would be brave enough to fly. Let's face it, the cheap prices you get on electronics are the result of a "use it and throw it away" engineering philosophy. They're not built to be relied upon.
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Are you arguing that all non-TSOed equipment should be similarly banished?
__________________
Dan Wright
Building RV-12 #511 in the Mojave desert (1976W reserved)
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