Gliding

[eric_marsh]

I'm still working towards my private pilot's certificate. As part of my instruction I've done the normal amount of gliding, dead stick landings and so forth. What I've found is that I really like unpowered flight. It's somewhat more challenging, but also just fun.

Is anyone here a glider pilot? I'm thinking of trying my hand at it to improve my skills, possibly cut my flying costs and to see if I might just enjoy it.

Eric

[mgomez]

I just got my glider rating a year or so ago, after 1100 hrs in airplanes. I really enjoy the challenge of soaring, and once I manage to gain altitude above my release point, I was hooked. I have earned my Bronze Badge, and I'm looking forward this year to getting my CFI-G and going X-C, which in a glider means flying beyond gliding range of the airport. In other words, it means you either find lift or land in a farmer's field

I feel it has made me a better airplane pilot and I am learning a lot about the atmosphere. Also, being an aeronautical engineer, soaring has taught me a bit about aerodynamics that I previously had the luxury of ignoring.

However, it'll be a long time before it's actually cheaper on a dollars/hour basis.

A tow to 3000' costs $32 at my club. Our cheapest glider is $15/hr. The most expensive is $39/hr. So if you stay up for 20 minutes, which is a typical "can't find any lift" ride, it's about $50 in an expensive glider or $37 in a cheap one. That's $111 to $150/hr...which is comparable to renting and airplane at an FBO.

If you learn how to exploit atmospheric lift, and fly only on good days (i.e. days in which you can expect to find thermal, ridge, or wave lift) then you can stay up for a long time, and the cost of the tow vanishes. For example, I've had a few two-hr flights. In our cheapest glider, that cost me $62...for two hours.

During training though, you can expect lots of short hops at a high hourly rate because you're not amortizing the tow over enough flying time.

[Bob Kuykendall]

I am a glider pilot, and I'm developing a high-performance kit sailplane that is all composite and gives the European racers a run for the money, but requires no more composites skill than is required to install an RV-8 windshield.

In my experience, the dollars-per-hour cost of soaring doesn't start beating powered flight until you start getting into cross-country flying. Joining a glider club can bring the cost down a bunch, but then you have to schedule around club activities. It's all a trade-off, of course.

That said, I've long felt that cross-country and competition soaring gives good value in terms of dollars per unit exhilaration, whatever those units might be.

Thanks, Bob K.

[steve91t]

I started working at a glider club when I was 13. Solo'd at 14, and kept going from there. When I finally went to college at 19, I had was not only giving rides, but also towing in one of their 3 Piper Pawnees. I can honestly say that experience has made me a better pilot.

I hope someday soon to be able to get back into gliders and also do some towing. Some of the mos flying I've ever done.

Steve

[n5lp]

Some have pointed out that gliding can be expensive and that is very true. Under some circumstances it can be inexpensive.

My experience is almost entirely with ground launching and that makes a big difference. A lot of my launches were on a home-made club winch and those tows were about $3 a piece at the time. My other tows were mostly using my personal vehicle and a 1,500 foot rope. It can be very satisfying to burn a few ounces of fuel in your Ford Taurus station wagon and fly for many hours and hundreds of miles. I would estimate my percentage of being able to fly away from a car launch at around 90 percent.

In my club, Schweizer 1-26s rented for $6 an hour. Later I purchased a 1-26 of my own for about $7,000 and flew it for many years. and then sold it for about the same amount. Later I bought a used high performance glider (Mini-Nimbus C), flew it for years and sold it for more than I bought it for. The only glider I lost some money on was the One Design Class PW-5 that never really caught on in this country.

So you see, it cost me about nothing, but it was a special situation of a large abandoned airport at a small town and people that didn't have to have the latest and shiniest stuff.

Even the very modest Schweizer 1-26 is capable of a lot of good flying. I think my longest straight out cross country was about 380 miles and I had it up to about 30,000 feet. Lots of fun in a short wingspan tube and fabric very simple machine.

The most intense and challenging flying I have done, by far, has been in gliders. In a contest, you are constantly making decisions of all sorts. Course, speed to fly, where to go for lift, how far to push things and whether that glider you see over there is climbing well and is it worth it to go over for the same thermal. Personally I got bored quickly with the floating around the airport type flying.

[az_gila]

Larry, put it very nicely....

However, I must point out that the achievements are easier in the Western half of the US than in the East. Same amout of fun and challenge though...

In my case it was much cheaper when I lived in Los Angeles, but more time consuming with a 2 hour drive to the desert at weekends.

Gil Alexander - US Diamond #670

[the_other_dougreeves]

I currently have a commercial glider and am working (slowly) on my CFI-G.

I find soaring to be a very different challenge. Part of it is that you are ALWAYS busy, at least mentally. Where am I? Where is the next thermal? Am I centered in this thermal? Where the **** is that other glider that was in the thermal with me? Do I have enough altitude to leave the thermal and go to the next one? What's my speed to fly? You get the idea. The lower performance your ship, the busier you will be since, for example, in a 1-26, you're almost always looking for lift. A club ship like a PW5 or ASW20 will be better, but in our Duo Discus, you can actually have a calm moment to enjoy the scenery - and you can ask the rear seater to fly

As far as costs go ... soaring is cheaper if you get a lot from your tows. If you only have to take one tow and fly the entire day, yes, its cheap. You're not going to get to that point for quite a while. Our club charges a flat $16 for a pattern tow, both glider rental and tow. We do that to encourage people to stay current.

My suggestion is to find a club for instruction, a good safety culture and cheaper tows. I'd visit the SSA website at http://www.ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp and look for a club. If you'd like info on my club in the Dallas area, PM me or visit http://www.texassoaring.org/ We'd love to have you over.

TODR

[steve91t]

On a good day on the east coat, I used to have guys with their own gliders jumping off the rope at 800ft. Cheap tow, and would be gone all day.

Even just getting to the point of solo will teach you more than flying than anywhere else.

You don't have to go all out to learn a lot.

I say get an instructional flight, usually more expensive than a normal ride, but it's almost all hands on. I would talk them through the tow, and as soon as we released, they were flying. If they were doing really well, they pretty much did the landing.

It's a great way to learn stick and rudder. I think most glider pilots would agree they can handle an engine failure with less stress than someone who has never flown a glider.

Steve

[David Shelton]

When I need to go some place, I fly an airplane. When I'm just flying for fun, nothing beats a sailplane on a good soaring day. While it's expensive at first, the cost begins to drop when you start chasing badges and flying cross-country. My average flight time is just over 4 hours, so my tows only cost about $8/hr.

Has anybody put a tow hook on their RV?

[N223JH]

Other respondents have properly addressed your initial query of cost and enjoyment of soaring. You should know that you will also develop useful skills applicable to powered flight. You will learn to be *much* more comfortable at airspeeds near stall and sensitive to movement of the airmass around you. If you train on older sailplanes you *will* learn to love slipping.

And you will love your RV more after wearing out your leg muscles with the adverse yaw in long-winged sailplanes!

Jim
ex RV6A, RV12 #264
CFI-G from 25 years ago