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03-03-2011, 10:26 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Kalifornia
Posts: 466
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Hot Rodding
Lot of common sense in old Paul:
AVWEB INSIDER BLOG: SILLINESS IN THE PATTERN
When the local homebuilt contingent goes rogue and does pretend fighter pilot jargon on the CTAF, is it time to pull them aside and have a little talk? Not really. Boys will be boys. But when that sort of thing confuses intent in the pattern, it's time to reconsider. Some poor student in an LSA isn't going to know what "initial for the break" means, and the next he knows, his windshield is full of RV-4 prop. That's the kind of nonsense Paul Bertorelli's coping with in the latest installment of the AVweb Insider blog.
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03-03-2011, 11:24 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Broomfield, CO
Posts: 639
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The link to the avweb article was posted here last week by some one, but one of the moderators deleted it. Apparently pattern talk is too off topic....
__________________
RV-7 Flying since 2004
1,100 hrs+
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03-03-2011, 12:25 PM
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unqualified unfluencer
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Highland Village, TX
Posts: 4,088
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__________________
Doug Reeves (your host) - Full time: VansAirForce.net since '07 (started it in '96).
- Part time: Supporting Crew Member CAE Embraer Phenom 300 (E55P) @ KDFW.
- Occasionally: Contract pilot (resume).
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03-03-2011, 01:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Broomfield, CO
Posts: 639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo
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Doug,
That's the irony.....or inconsistency. The other thread was deleted while the above linked thread flourishes. The other thread was simply a link to the avweb article on pattern silliness. BTW, I'm not the one that posted it, so I'm not offended in the least....just thought it was strange.
BTW, love the "complete fraud" title. Doesn't that describe 90% of us?
[ed. I didn't delete the other thread, or remember seeing it to be honest. Just trying to help.... ;^) dr]
__________________
RV-7 Flying since 2004
1,100 hrs+
Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 03-03-2011 at 02:16 PM.
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03-03-2011, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 626
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I haven't tried an overhead break in my currently flying machine - a Cessna 172. Not sure I should if only to save my pride. But it's well used at our airport. Never have I seen somebody use this procedure with other traffic in the pattern. I will try it in my RV-9A some day soon I hope.
Another situation I love is when you are turning base and hear "Citation Blah Blah five mile final for 3-1" with no other prior transmission :0 Just got off the radio with ATC I suppose and decided to join the local conversation.
It was entertaining to see one such Citation do a low pass go-around due to a Cessna 172 being on short final after just the same situation. Cessna 172 - little landing light, Citation - big landing light getting bigger. I was at the other end of the runway on the ground just watching and listening. Citations, graceful in all their glory, do not "go around" the pattern again here - they go around the city. LOL. Their second try, exactly the same thing looked like it was setting itself up again with another Cessna 172 on final and a big landing light chasing them. I was thinking "Oh boy, those passengers probably only paid for one tour of the city." Fortunately for both, the Cessna cleared the runway with time enough for the Citation to make a safe final approach to a landing, but it was a smaller window than perhaps the jet guy would have liked.
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03-09-2011, 08:48 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out West!
Posts: 80
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As both a "jet" pilot and GA pilot, I would always start monitoring traffic pattern radio 20 miles out or so to get an ideal of what is going on. Once we got closer while still with ATC, I would make a radio call announcing our position and intentions on the other radio while the other pilot monitored ATC freq.
If I am in a small airplane in the pattern and can offer up some professional courtesy and let a jet land first regardless of right-of-way, I will. Operating a jet can be whole busier than a C-172. Checklist, approach guidance, ect. That does NOT however relieve a turbine crew of be professional and responsible and not taking advantage of the "I am in a jet" syndrome.
From what I have seen, most people in the pattern at local airports are rarely paying attention to what is going on outside their airplane. I have seen this regardless of what kind of fuel I am burning.
We are all pilots and there are certain demands placed on your attention and professionalism. Get checklist done early, keep your head out from the point you enter the pattern until the time you stop in parking.
(By the way, the overhead is a perfectly legal option when entering the traffic pattern for landing. While it may not be widely accepted, anyone with an understanding of the FAR/AIM should be aware and prepared.)
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03-09-2011, 10:23 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Daytona Beach, Florida
Posts: 121
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Non towered
As mentioned above "overhead 360" is an approved pattern, check FAR/AIM. Strait in approach to non towered airports affords very little situational awareness, but are legal, although not recomended. Any pilot is required to have all information available for their flight, even students. Be safe, Gene
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03-09-2011, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneL
As mentioned above "overhead 360" is an approved pattern, check FAR/AIM. Strait in approach to non towered airports affords very little situational awareness, but are legal, although not recomended. Any pilot is required to have all information available for their flight, even students. Be safe, Gene
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OK, I'll bite, where in the AIM does it say that for a non-towered airport?
FIG 4-3-1
Components of a Traffic Pattern
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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03-09-2011, 11:53 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Out West!
Posts: 80
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The AIM is non-regulatory.
Pattern entries are recommended only where the overhead is specifically mentioned in the FAR's..if I recall. I do not have the FAR's in front of me.
Again, operate in a professional, considerate, and safe manner.
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03-09-2011, 11:56 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newnan, GA
Posts: 318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
OK, I'll bite, where in the AIM does it say that for a non-towered airport?
FIG 4-3-1
Components of a Traffic Pattern
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From a quick search online: AIM: 5-4-26. Overhead Approach Maneuver
__________________
Brian Kilby
flying RV-6A, previously flying RV-9A
based at KCTJ, Carrollton, GA
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