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  #11  
Old 05-28-2006, 10:22 AM
plossl plossl is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Default S19 vs RV12

I'm in, guys, a newbie coming to you from Sunny South Carolina. The RV12 looks like the plane to beat when it comes to grabbing a sizeable chunk of the older-wiser sport pilot market. From what I've read, the 912 has a better reliability rating than even conventional aircraft engines. The Rans S19 looks to be very well made, however, and I bet it sells well. I'd look at both before putting down the money, but if I can pop the wings off the RV and drag it home for fiddling, that makes a BIG difference. Plossl.
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2006, 06:42 PM
jany77 jany77 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: monterey ,ca
Posts: 105
Default rv-12 cost

i think the rans 19 is too expensive and the build time is too much what they asking for 23900 no way,on other hand the zenair 601 xl can be build under 500 hours and cost about 15800 , i also think vans price will be somewhere around 13000-16000 ,and also whole kit prepunched ,the rans doesnot mention anythink about punching their kits zenair has some flat skins drilled i flew one 601 hd taildragger it was pleasure to fly nice plane cruise speed was around 122 mph this is older version of 601 xl ,also if you put the price of rotax 912 which is around 13500 new the used dont go under 11000 so you have complete kit around 35000 that is sound for me crazy im waiting for rv-12 price if it will take 80 hp engine ill use the aerovee its clone of vw has dual ignition and nice carburetor which "works" and the price is 5500 $ ,so will see what happen in neer feature i still have some work on my rv-3
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  #13  
Old 05-29-2006, 08:31 PM
PatrickW PatrickW is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 36
Default

I'm very interested in seeing what Van's has at Oshkosh this year.

The Zenith 601 XL is a leading player in this particular market space. While Van's is a proven company, the 601 is a proven design, and the RV-12 will be new, which translates to "unproven" for a lot of people.

Still, I think a lot of guys (like me) who are ready to pull the trigger will give the RV-12 serious consideration.

- Patrick
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  #14  
Old 05-29-2006, 09:09 PM
jany77 jany77 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: monterey ,ca
Posts: 105
Default rv-12

i agree,thats why im thinking the price will be really low
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  #15  
Old 05-30-2006, 07:08 AM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatMan
51% rule doesn't have to apply here though, depends on how it will be registered. Looks like it will be a great kit. Kind of what we have grown to expect from Vans
The 51% rule will still apply. All they have to do is leave the tail is it is and make you dimple it. The rule is such that you have to do 51% of the tasks, not the building. Thus if you do one drill, dimple, and rivet you have done that task.

That is how Lancair (and others) gets away with doing so much for the builders. This includes Van's with their quick build kits.
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  #16  
Old 05-30-2006, 05:25 PM
the_other_dougreeves the_other_dougreeves is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
Posts: 2,180
Default E-LSA are not required to meet "51% Rule"

Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
The 51% rule will still apply.
When building your own LSA, you can either build it as an experimental amateur-built or as an experimental LSA. 51% applies to the former, not the later.

Factories can offer E-LSA from 0% to 99% complete. I don't see Van's offering anything more complete than what we already have with the QB kits - the liability exposure for the factory goes up along with the % complete out the door. Personally, I don't want Vans to offer 85% (or whatever %) kits, as I'd rather they focus on design and support, and customization has always been a key part of the RV "experience".

One approach that I think Van's could take is to assemble key structures (e.g., spar, parts of the fuse) in the factory with traditional bucked rivets and have the builder build the rest (e.g., skins) with blind rivets. This wouldn't take much time and would, IMHO, improve the aircraft by adding strength and lowering weight.

As a point of comparison, Rans offers the S-7 in several stages of completion: "raw" kit, "quick build" with wing and fuselage covering on, or ready-to-fly S-LSA. I would expect them to do the same with the S-19.

http://www.sportpilot.org/news/030317-2.html
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  #17  
Old 05-30-2006, 07:33 PM
ceuh1v ceuh1v is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 34
Default Vans RV-12 engine choice

Help me out a little??
I am really looking forward to the Vans RV-12, I'm sure it will be a fine machine. A friend of mine has a Sonex with a 3300 Jabiru - really a very nice engine - lots of pull in the Sonex. I know the RV-12 will be the better aircraft for me, but I think I would prefer the Jabiru 3300 over the Rotax 912ULS -- I think? Anyway to my question: Based on your experiences, will I be able to buy the RV-12 and then install the engine of my choice, based on your experience will the engine mounts and cowlings be available. Will the FAA allow me to change the engine in the LSA?

The Jabiru 3300 installed should only weigh a little more than the Rotax (based on the Zenith 601 XL specs), and speed should not be a factor since my friends sonex, wighing 1150 lbs gross, does 138 mph at cruise 2850 rpm, she will do 170 + at max power, 3250 rpm -- .

Thanks for your information, I look forward to convesing with many of you during the years ahead - RV-12 on the way?? I would sure like that!

ceuh1v
Jim -- Sacramento, CA
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  #18  
Old 05-30-2006, 07:51 PM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 4,219
Default

Hijacking the thread here, but my friends who built Sonex (Soni?) are not at all satisfied with the support they are getting from Jaibiru. On the other hand, the guys with the 912 Rotax engines on various airframes seem to be extremely pleased.

Obviously, my sample size is too small to be representative, but it might be interesting if others would relate what they are seeing/hearing at their home field.
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  #19  
Old 05-30-2006, 08:16 PM
N674P N674P is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 226
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickW
The Zenith 601 XL is a leading player in this particular market space. While Van's is a proven company, the 601 is a proven design, and the RV-12 will be new, which translates to "unproven" for a lot of people.
The same engineering team that put out the "unproven" RV-10 is developing the RV-12.
The prototype RV-10 first flew in May 2003. In May 2006 there are already 37 customer built -10's flying, and many more on the way, with very few gripes. Were I in the market for an LSA at this time, I would without reservation order one of Van's "unproven" designs!
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  #20  
Old 05-30-2006, 08:57 PM
PatrickW PatrickW is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 36
Default Unproven

Quote:
Originally Posted by N674P
The same engineering team that put out the "unproven" RV-10 is developing the RV-12.
The prototype RV-10 first flew in May 2003. In May 2006 there are already 37 customer built -10's flying, and many more on the way, with very few gripes. Were I in the market for an LSA at this time, I would without reservation order one of Van's "unproven" designs!
That's a really good point, N674P.

- Patrick
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