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  #1  
Old 03-02-2011, 03:33 PM
tdhanson tdhanson is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 92
Default Can a previously built/flown plane be rebuilt and go through AW again? obtain cert?

Let's say a previously built and flown airplane becomes unused and sits. Then the engine/prop is sold and wings taken off and stored. It's then sold to a new person.

Now a major remodel occurs where it's reassembled, new panel, new engine/prop (possibly different than original).

What does the new owner have to do to get the AW cert?
Does the AW certificate need to be addressed?
What about those planes 'de-registered'?
What is the process to get back to fully registered and AW entail?
Is the option of becoming a repairman for plane available for some situation of major rework or process of deconstructing and reconstruction? At what point does a previously flying plane go back to a kit/parts and then back to plane?
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  #2  
Old 03-02-2011, 04:18 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default Horses mouth......

Call Dilly at Sac FSDO.

916-422-0272.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."

Last edited by Mike S : 03-02-2011 at 04:31 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-02-2011, 04:26 PM
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craigvince craigvince is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Stockton, CA
Posts: 1,207
Default

It doesn't sound to me like a major remodel would occur at all.

The plane was disassembled and stored. You're simply reassembling it and putting it back into service. The A/W certificate remains valid, pending of course a current annual, etc, etc, etc. Hang a similar engine prop on it and you're still within the original design and certification of the airplane. Now, if it had a 125 hp engine on it, and you want to hang a Merlin V-12 on the front, you'd have a problem.

This is my opinion, I'm not a DAR, your mileage may vary.
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  #4  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:44 AM
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Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
Default This depends......

on several things. Has the original airworthiness been surrendered? If so, the aircraft is "dead in the water".
Once the airworthiness certificate for an experimental amateur-built aircraft has been surrendered, there is no path back.
If the airworthiness is still valid, then no problem. It can be put back into service bu going through a new phase I test program.
No one but the original builder is eligible for the repairman certificate.
If you would like to discuss further contact me at:
n168tx(at)flytx.net or 972-784-7544. If possible have the operating limitations in hand.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #5  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:14 AM
wilddog wilddog is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: va.
Posts: 523
Default

How much trouble is it to get back in the air if only the registration has expired? I have an old AB Exp. that has not flown for years and was thinking of letting the registration expire, but someday I might want to replace the engine and fly it. If it is not registered, I won't be charged property taxes while it sits in a corner of the hanger. I hold the repairmans cert for it.
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  #6  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:32 AM
az_gila's Avatar
az_gila az_gila is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel View Post
on several things. Has the original airworthiness been surrendered? If so, the aircraft is "dead in the water".
Once the airworthiness certificate for an experimental amateur-built aircraft has been surrendered, there is no path back.
If the airworthiness is still valid, then no problem. It can be put back into service bu going through a new phase I test program.
No one but the original builder is eligible for the repairman certificate.
If you would like to discuss further contact me at:
n168tx(at)flytx.net or 972-784-7544. If possible have the operating limitations in hand.
Mel, this makes sense - but when a similar situation happened locally several years ago to a Lancair, we couldn't find any FARs mandating a Phase I return after a major repair - a new wing in this case - but no modifications.

Since Experimental aircraft don't come under the minor/major repair category and 337 use, what FARs/documents make the return to Phase I required?

Personally, I thik a major repair to an Experimental should count as a "modification" but couldn't find any applicable documents.
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Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ

Last edited by az_gila : 03-03-2011 at 07:33 AM. Reason: spellling
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  #7  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:39 AM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
Default Repairman certificate

Not entirely true concerning the repairman certificate. You can apply for a waiver of the rule (I forget which one) which limits the repairman certificate to the original builder. It is a lengthy and tedious process requiring a lot of documentation but it works - I did it myself.

My father and I built, from scratch, a BD-4 a number of years ago. We worked side-by-side for over 6 years and logged equal time building. Being an active duty naval aviator we determined it would be in our best interest for my father to become the designated repairman. Not long after he lost interest in the plane and I became the sole owner.

I researched the waiver process, compiled my argument and documentation and sent the package to the Washington FSDO. 90 Days later I received a letter authorizing deviation of the rule. I took this letter to the FSDO and applied for and received a repairman certificate. They did require my father to surrender his first so in essence there is still only one repairman for this airplane (at any given time).

If you research this process you'll find at least 3 other successful examples of folks who've done the same thing. One case was nearly identical to mine, another was a guy who purchased a totaled plane and rebuilt it, and I cannot remember the others. The EAA was a big help and wrote a letter to the FAA endorsing me strongly. Additionally, Jim Bede - the designer, used my plane in several airshows as a display model so I had him write a letter to the FAA citing my qualifications. Having a MS in aeronautical engineering, several active duty tours as an aircraft maintenance quality assurance rep, and maintenance officer didn't hurt me (according to the FAA).


Anyway..thought I'd share.

Ken
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  #8  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:41 AM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: na
Posts: 1,457
Default

another thing I learned through this process...

all of our regulations are waiverable.

think about that one....
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  #9  
Old 03-03-2011, 07:42 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default

What I found was that had I replaced my O-290-D2 with another O-290-D2 and put it back exactly as it was configured prior to my taxi incident, then I could have taken a passenger up on the first flight with the replacement engine. It wouldn't have mattered that I removed the wings and tail, replaced the engine mount, cowling, etc. as long as it was configured the same as when the pink slip was originally issued.

However, since I changed the engine (replaced the 135 HP O-290-D2 with an ECi O-360) I was required to do a five hour Phase 1 test period.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html

Last edited by N941WR : 07-08-2012 at 06:17 PM.
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2012, 06:08 PM
KatieB's Avatar
KatieB KatieB is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stilwell, KS
Posts: 1,096
Default Hey Mel!

I sent you an email regarding this subject. Questions for you!
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RV-3B sold, but flying!
Next project: ???
Builders gonna build...
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