Electroair Ignition Failure - Page 2

Steve Sampson · #11 02-24-2011, 02:21 AM

Are you saying this happened while another Electroair unit was working 100% normally?

Quote:

Originally Posted by N130PM

First, it is not my desire to flame Electroair in any way. I believe there are some data points that should be found in the archives, as I have spent the last few days searching VAF and the RV list, I think this needs to be added.

Way back in 2006 I was helping my buddy Mike Cupiole finish his 6. Being a staunch believer in Jeff Rose and his EI unit I goaded him into purchasing one. Mike was a better mech than me but it never worked. He took it out and put in a Slick and asked me if I wanted it.

5 years later I put it in my plane. No workie. Send it back, it was returned with two new coils and deemed to be OK. OK!

Flew 55 hours with it. Strange stumbling at low power while taxiing. Ran fine at first at high power then a couple of stumbles early in the flight. They were no kidding get your attention right now events. I circled the glider port for 5 minutes the first time trying to figure it out. It just stopped.

Last Saturday at Valkeria (by the way outstanding little airshow) as I raised my tail and stuck the RV down for that extra cushion of pull off speed I feel "DUUUH". It registers but I'm really busy at the time and I'm passing the shut her down and abort point, so I pull her off. Instead of flying off like she usually does, she sinks back in and bouces twice, I feel her tail drop down and then she just somehow flys off. I see I'm down 150 rpm from normal. This is new. So I just hold what I have and start looking for a place to go. Its much quieter than it usually is at this point in the flight. I find a road if need be, level out, I reach 110MPH and start a 300 fpm climb. I get to 500 feet and turn a wide base to return to Valkaria and the **** thing kicks in like an afterburner. It was ...DRAMATIC....she took off like a scalded cat and in a few seconds I was climbing at 1700 fpm. OK, so I'll climb up and see what I get. At 4500 feet I cycle the EI off and on and I do recreate what I just experienced. It was working fine and I flew home with no further pucker.

Today I received a return call from Electroair. They told me exactly what I had witnessed. I give them huge credit for not telling me that I was crazy and they never heard of such a thing. They told me the following.

When I sent my unit to them, there was no way they could duplicate the situation. Well, neither could I today. The problem is in the board, something I also knew since the Hall Effect unit was still functioning as that gives me my RPM reading and I was down 150 rpm on take off (its an enormous 150). Its an old unit and the silicon in the board degrades with time. I asked if I bought another unit, would I face this again? "Yes, in another ten years. But if you want we'll sell you another lower unit for 800 bucks. "Or, for your own piece of mind now given what happend, you might want to just put a mag in." I'll give them credit, they shot straight.

And this is the reason for the post. If you have one of these, straight from the horses mouth, it is a time sensitive component. I realize that 95% of those installed are problem free, but thats not a big comfort when you are trying to stay out of the trees at the far end. Seriously, it climbed like a Cessena 140 on a hot day. I have a Bendix on the shelf that was O/hauled with my left mag. I'll put it in, just for simple economics and the comfort of my wife who is a little freaked out.

I hope this will be helpful to someone in the future.

N130PM · #12 02-24-2011, 03:57 PM

Steve, no I have a Bendix w/impulse on the Left side. That kept me aloft.

On the wiring thing, I stood behind a spinning prop with the engine just running on the EI for ten minutes jiggling every connection I could reach. I could not make it miss a beat. The fact that the two times prior to Saturday, when it happened, it also happened in the first 5 minutes of the flight, then was fine the rest of the flight. Of course both times I beat feet back home and tried to convince myself it was a fouled plug, the plugs were beautifully clean, not a chance they were fouled or mis gapped.

smokyray · #13 02-24-2011, 06:00 PM

I bolted one of Jeff Rose's first ignitions in my RV-4 back in the 90's. It is still running strong after nearly 15 years and 1400 hours. I duplicated the setup (one mag/one EI) in my HR2 and my RVX, again no issues whatsoever.

Total time on all three systems is over 2500 hours. My systems are all of the original design but work very well. Just a positive note for Electroair and Jeff's leading edge design, much cloned since.

Smokey

rocketbob · #14 02-24-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rvmills

Bob, my box is silver and just two years old. Are the gold/purple boxes problematic units, to your knowledge?

I know a couple of guys that tried the purple boxes and had nothing but problems. Gold ones, like I have on my RV and Rocket, no problem. I don't know anything about the silver boxes.

swaneymj · #15 02-24-2011, 09:59 PM

I have a question not related to the failures. With a single ElectroAir system, have most folks run the spark plug wires to the bottom plugs on all cylinders?
Thanks,
Mark S.

Steve Sampson · #16 02-25-2011, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N130PM

Steve, no I have a Bendix w/impulse on the Left side. That kept me aloft.

While I would expect some power loss, if the Bendix is working fine, what you describe is a bit extreme I would have thought. Still, nobody else has picked up on it so perhaps my expectations of a single conventional mar are too high.

I have been on dual P-mags for a while, and while it is better to have two on than just one it pulls well on one.

Glad it kept you aloft and a safe return!

Pat Hatch · #17 02-25-2011, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaneymj

I have a question not related to the failures. With a single ElectroAir system, have most folks run the spark plug wires to the bottom plugs on all cylinders?
Thanks,
Mark S.

Mark, I think you will find that most people run the EI wires to the top plugs, however there isn't a compelling reason to do so in my opinion. Keep in mind that the EI wires are running a much higher voltage and the spark will be hotter and base your decision on that. Many folks like to have the shorter wires (top plugs) running the higher voltage, others want to have the bottom plugs (most likely to fowl) with the hotter spark. I chose the bottom plugs for my ElectroAir system. Been fine for 8 years now.

Greg Reese · #18 02-25-2011, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaneymj

I have a question not related to the failures. With a single ElectroAir system, have most folks run the spark plug wires to the bottom plugs on all cylinders?
Thanks,
Mark S.

Mark,
My builder put the EI plugs on the bottom. 1000 hours has run well but have replaced the RPM detector a couple times.

Kyle Boatright · #19 02-25-2011, 08:54 AM

One of the guys at Van's had problems with his spark plug connectors coming loose on the bottom plugs (since the automotive wires don't have the same mechanical connection as aviation wires). He moved the wires to the top and apparently solved the problem. I took the same approach from the beginning, figuring gravity would work in favor of keeping the auto wires attached on the top plugs.

Cadstat · #20 02-25-2011, 09:20 AM

When you read about a pilot electing to continue a flight under these conditions it should be a warning to you all.

'she took off like a scalded cat and in a few seconds I was climbing at 1700 fpm. OK, so I'll climb up and see what I get.'

Don't try to diagnose from the cockpit in the air. I had two engine out landings on the same day for the same reason, my own foolishness. Unless you want your Obit to include 'test pilot or crash test dummy' get back on the ground as soon as possible.