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01-26-2011, 07:26 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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Would you like some beachfront property....
....in Kansas?
This house of cards will more likely than not come tumbling down.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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01-26-2011, 08:00 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Fort Myers
Posts: 370
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There's a DAR in central Fl that has built two 9s for the purpose of flying as LSA. Basically he builds as normal amateur built and keeps the parameters within LSA reg. He had one at Sebring, O-235 and 2 blade wood prop with a very sparse panel--I think it was 930 empty.( I know--it's marginal useful load) He says he even had a letter from Vans himself stating that the aircraft met the lsa parameters. Just to be clear--these are NOT LSA aircraft but they fall within the metrics to fly with a light sport license.
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01-26-2011, 10:31 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 219
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I too was left wondering what happened to the original thread...
I'm not sure if this is the same 'guy' that flybuddy is referring to...but the RV-9 and RV-9A "LSA's" being exhibited at Sebring this year were built by 4 retired firemen. They've been building 1 plane per year (sez the guy...), they moved the redline on the tach (to meet the speed requirement), they added vortex generators on the wing to beat the stall speed, and they are known real well by the FSDO guys' (sez the guy...), the implication being that this is an entirely legal arrangement.
FWIW I thought the build quality was a bit weak (even to my untrained eye...), the planes were being hawked like it was a carnival of sorts, and there were many 'winks' and unfinished sentences when I asked Q's like 'What's the endurance of the a/c as an LSA?' ('Well...you know, it kinda depends on how much gas you put in the tanks (wink, wink...) and, you know, what you do is what you do...')
The whole affair left the two of us feeling like we'd picked up some scum on our clothes from the encounter. If the way in which Mitch Lock presents the RV-12 and represents Vans is at one end of the 'This is how it should be done in the LSA World' continuum - and he is - then this was W-A-Y at the opposite end of what I think flying should be about.
Jack
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01-26-2011, 11:22 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tyler
the RV-9 and RV-9A "LSA's" being exhibited at Sebring this year were built by 4 retired firemen. They've been building 1 plane per year (sez the guy...), they moved the redline on the tach (to meet the speed requirement), they added vortex generators on the wing to beat the stall speed, and they are known real well by the FSDO guys' (sez the guy...), the implication being that this is an entirely legal arrangement.
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Are they building these airplanes for "sale"? What category are the aircraft certificated in? SLSA? ELSA? EAB?
SLSA would be the only "available" route for this type of operation, and that takes a pretty large investment the show ASTM compliance for aircraft, engine, and operation.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-26-2011, 06:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
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I thought they were licensing the airplanes as EAB, but were building them to comply with all of the LSA limitations by limiting the redline, limiting the gross weight, adding vortex generators, etc. Then, they can be flown by sport pilots, just like a Cub, or an early model Ercoupe can be flown by sport pilots. Is this correct?
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020
"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne
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01-26-2011, 07:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,769
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My point was...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaib
I thought they were licensing the airplanes as EAB, but were building them to comply with all of the LSA limitations by limiting the redline, limiting the gross weight, adding vortex generators, etc. Then, they can be flown by sport pilots, just like a Cub, or an early model Ercoupe can be flown by sport pilots. Is this correct?
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1/ They are claiming to have built 4 airplanes in 4 years. That sounds like they are building them for sale. You can't do that under EAB.
2/ If you buy one of these airplanes, and operate it as a sport pilot, it will be YOUR responsibility to show that it is LSA compliant.
Operation is at your own risk!
3/ I have quite a bit of experience with Light-Sport Category and Experimental Light-Sport aircraft and I don't believe that there's any practical way to bring the RV-9 design into LSA compliance.
And the designer agrees!
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-27-2011, 07:35 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
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I agree 100% with all of your points Mel. (and the designers too!) I was just asking because some folks have been suggesting the airplanes were licensed as LSA. I can't see how that would be possible, so was trying to confirm if they are licensed EAB.
But, if a legitimate builder wanted to build an RV-9, and limit the GW to 1320, and comply with the other LSA requirements, would there be any reason not to issue the EAB airworthiness certificate?
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020
"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne
Last edited by dmaib : 01-27-2011 at 07:41 AM.
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01-27-2011, 12:40 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 219
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Mel, I'm just speculating based on the discussion at the booth...but with 4 ex-firemen builders involved and building 1 a/c per year, I can imagine they rotate the official registration ownership and take the position 'Hey, built one 4 years ago, sold it and decided to build another one.' They were being pitched as E-AB completed but available to be flown under the LSA rules given the mods made to them (sez the guy).
Oily, distasteful experience.
Jack
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03-20-2011, 12:24 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 1,136
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RV-9A LSA
I understand that the RV9A can be qualified as LSA. Interested in feedback from those that have gone down this path.
Pat
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03-20-2011, 01:01 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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There should be a lot of info already here------try using the search, and dont forget to set it to any date, not the default of one year.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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