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01-25-2011, 08:55 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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RV-9 LSA Discussion
I was in the middle of replying to this thread and it simply disappeared, gone, no can locate....
Anyway, here's the gist of what my thoughts are on the subject.
Set Operating Limitations to LSA standards and it is an LSA airplane. Isn't that what CubCrafters has done with the Carbon Cub - and with FAA blessing?
THE LIGHT SPORT CATEGORY LIMITS THIS AIRCRAFT TO:
900 lb empty weight and 1320 lb gross weight on wheels.
Maximum continuous speed of 138 miles per hour.
Maximum takeoff power limited to five minutes.
Maximum continuous power limited to 80 HP after five minutes.
The engine is a Lycoming 0340 rated at 180HP but only for take and climb, not for cruise. You must pull the power back to 80HP as per operating limitations so as to not exceed max speed to 138 mph.
Seems like the same could be done with any amituer build airplane, simply write it into the program letter and make it a part of the operating limitations. Of course all the other limits of LSA, like 2 seats, FP prop, stall speed, etc would have to be complied with.
There are a ton of airplanes on the market that meet LSA limits. Why not a modified RV-9? The precedent has been set at Cub Crafters. Rather than design an airplane to max LSA limits, simply set operating limits so as to not exceed those limits.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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01-25-2011, 09:18 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
Posts: 748
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Weight
Mostly because most RV-9s weigh in around 1,000 lbs empty. The LSA Max at 1320 limits you to one 180 lb pilot and 20 gal of gas.
__________________
Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA
RV-9, 7 - going fast
BC-12D - going slow
jrhodes@v1salesmgt.com
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01-25-2011, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Actually there are already a number of RV9's that are registered EAB-(which the builders claim are LSA compliant). The SLSA from Cub Crafters is a bit different of a story than EAB-(that meet LSA compliance) or even ELSA's. It can be done, but I think pretty much it's frowned on because you can't really make a good LSA out of it just purely due to empty weight as say compared to something like the ELSA (that you could build as EAB) that Van's already offers - that being the marvelous RV-12!
I think that since Van's now offers such a good lineup of airplanes, one should just look at purchasing the airplane designed for the task. It's kind of like if you want an RV9 that does a bunch of Aerobatics, then just get a -7. If you want a -9 that is an LSA, then just get a -12. If you want an RV-9 that has 4 seats, then get an RV-10....you get the point.
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
PS: This link : http://www.liteplane.com/home.html is usually what gets people going on this entire topic. Note his sales of "RV9/A ELSA's"....I won't get involved in that one!
Last edited by SteinAir : 01-25-2011 at 12:37 PM.
Reason: Added a few words to more clearly denote what Mel said!
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01-25-2011, 10:21 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Save even more by not insuring.
You can have any amount of discussion about building an RV-9 as an LSA.
Since the aircraft can never be certificated as an LSA, the only problem arises when you encounter a problem like trying to get an insurance settlement following an accident.
You can fly a "Rocket" as an LSA if you want to. But, it is up to you to show LSA compliance when challenged.
BTW, there is no maximum empty weight for LSA. That limit is only for SLSA (Light-Sport Category).
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-25-2011, 10:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,646
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Doesn't the stall speed of the RV9 (even as slow as it is) make it ineligible for LSA? How would one get around that?
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Steve M.
Ellensburg WA
RV-9 Flying, 0-320, Catto
Donation reminder: Jan. 2021
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01-25-2011, 01:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
Posts: 748
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LSA stall speed maximum is 45 kts (54 mph). Ours stalls at 51 mph indicated. So you're probably close but OK on that. I'll bet it would cruise at way more than 120 kts, even with 100hp, unless you artificially dirtied it up.
I'd hate the intentional ineffeciency.
__________________
Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA
RV-9, 7 - going fast
BC-12D - going slow
jrhodes@v1salesmgt.com
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01-25-2011, 01:28 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Remember...
The 45 kt. max stall speed for LSA is "CLEAN" stall speed. Stall speed with flaps doesn't count.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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01-25-2011, 01:36 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: central oregon
Posts: 1,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDRhodes
LSA stall speed maximum is 45 kts (54 mph). Ours stalls at 51 mph indicated. So you're probably close but OK on that. I'll bet it would cruise at way more than 120 kts, even with 100hp, unless you artificially dirtied it up.
I'd hate the intentional ineffeciency.
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vortex generators should help both speeds get lower..
__________________
nothing special here...
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01-25-2011, 02:18 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Taylorsville, GA
Posts: 748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
The 45 kt. max stall speed for LSA is "CLEAN" stall speed. Stall speed with flaps doesn't count.
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Oh yeah - Then no, you won't make that.
__________________
Jeff Rhodes - Taylorsville, GA
RV-9, 7 - going fast
BC-12D - going slow
jrhodes@v1salesmgt.com
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01-25-2011, 03:50 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 15
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Never saw the original post, so I am wondering, Why? Why try to make an RV-9 LSA? Was there a builder who lost medical while building, etc? Or was the intent to make it more "marketable" if they needed to sell later?
As an aside, the Arion Lightning started out as a 120HP E-AB aircraft that would do about 155 knots maxed out. They added some wing tips, left off the gear fairings, limited cruise RPM on the Jabiru and BAM! LSA compliant and available from the factory as a completed aircraft. I guess it can be done...
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