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  #211  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Andy Hill's Avatar
Andy Hill Andy Hill is offline
 
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While you've got that picture there Mike, an article in our latest LAA magazine refers to cracks found in the RV-10 engine / nosegear mount on a 150hr example.

It says "Vans are working on a small design change here to prevent further cracking" so Vans seem in the loop on it - whether they've passed it on I do not know?

The aircraft can continue flying for now, monitoring, but when the repair is done, engine / mount will need to come off. The crack, I think, is at the top of that bunch of black rubber spaces, between the struts / at the base of the larger circular assembly.

Andy
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  #212  
Old 01-12-2011, 01:37 PM
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rleffler rleffler is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Hill View Post
While you've got that picture there Mike, an article in our latest LAA magazine refers to cracks found in the RV-10 engine / nosegear mount on a 150hr example.

It says "Vans are working on a small design change here to prevent further cracking" so Vans seem in the loop on it - whether they've passed it on I do not know?

Andy,

Please post a link to the article. As a RV-10 builder you just got my attention, since I've not heard of this issue previously.

thanks,

bob
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  #213  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:02 PM
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Bob Ellis Bob Ellis is offline
 
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Hi Bob

I have scanned the article - sorry about the blurred left edge but you get the gist.

Bob
www.rv-8.co.uk
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  #214  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Andy Hill's Avatar
Andy Hill Andy Hill is offline
 
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Quote:
Andy,

Please post a link to the article
I was going to say the LAA is stuck in the paper age, but see that is slightly unfair...

It will appear in the Jan 11 'Safety Spot' here LAA Link "soon"...

When they publish it there, hopefully Bob can delete his post before they lock him up for breach of copyright

Andy
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  #215  
Old 01-12-2011, 04:07 PM
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Av8torTom Av8torTom is offline
 
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Default Agree with Mike

I think a RV-10 style nose gear would be a big improvement.
Is it my imagination or does this nose gear failure seem to be less frequent in the RV9A? If true, do you think this is due to slower landing speed? Maybe there are just a lot more 7s out there and it's a statistical thing.

T.
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  #216  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:35 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Default RV take-off and landing video

I have argued for many years that the Vans two-place nose gear design is deficient in that it is best suited for lighter loads and is struggling to cope with the loads now associated with increased gross weights, bigger engines, and heavier constant speed props.

However I also recognise that many RV pilots have take-off and landing techniques that are not suitable for a nose gear RV. Many pilots simply do not keep the nose gear off the ground for as long as possible during take-off and landing. They are asking for trouble.

This is a URL to a 5 minute HD video of RVs taking off and landing shot by Doug Reeves (a very good video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWYxU83KmZo

There is only one nose gear RV in this video (an RV8A). I would ask you to go to the 1.05 minute mark on the video to see it take-off. And then go to the 2.25 minute mark to see it land.

This is the type of flying technique that puts very large stresses on the nose gear and greatly increases the probability of nose gear failure. People can learn something from this video.
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  #217  
Old 01-12-2011, 07:47 PM
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LifeofReiley LifeofReiley is offline
 
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Bob,

You would be correct in that the nose wheel is a TAXI wheel, and in NO way a MAJOR load bearing wheel or any part of the TRUE LANDING gear.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
I have argued for many years that the Vans two-place nose gear design is deficient in that it is best suited for lighter loads and is struggling to cope with the loads now associated with increased gross weights, bigger engines, and heavier constant speed props.

However I also recognise that many RV pilots have take-off and landing techniques that are not suitable for a nose gear RV. Many pilots simply do not keep the nose gear off the ground for as long as possible during take-off and landing. They are asking for trouble.

This is a URL to a 5 minute HD video of RVs taking off and landing shot by Doug Reeves (a very good video).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWYxU83KmZo

There is only one nose gear RV in this video (an RV8A). I would ask you to go to the 1.05 minute mark on the video to see it take-off. And then go to the 2.25 minute mark to see it land.

This is the type of flying technique that puts very large stresses on the nose gear and greatly increases the probability of nose gear failure. People can learn something from this video.
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  #218  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:00 PM
DeltaRomeo DeltaRomeo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
snip...And then go to the 2.25 minute mark to see it land.
This is the type of flying technique that puts very large stresses on the nose gear and greatly increases the probability of nose gear failure. People can learn something from this video.
I respectfully disagree.

I think if you go back and look at the landing again you'll see that there is daylight between the nose wheel and the ground for almost all of the high speed part of the rollout. The nosewheel may have momentarily scuffed a high spot in the pavement, but only hard enough to gently start the wheel spinning. I have a unique perspective for this particular 8A's landings, as I keep my RV hangared right off the bravo turnoff (midpoint) on this runway. I have seen it land dozens of times, always with the nosewheel held an inch or so off the pavement. Kay is very good at landing, as he is retired and flies it nearly every day.

In this particular landing Kay was carrying a little more speed because there were other aircraft from the formation flight landing just behind him. This resulted in a slightly faster rollout, so the wheel was probably only 1 inch or less above the surface. And since it was around 1,500 feet away from me, the lens doesn't pick up this level of detail.

Kindest,

Doug Reeves
(the guy who shot the video - and playing the video back on a large screen TV absolutely shows daylight between the nosewheel and the pavement - but only about an inch)
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 01-12-2011 at 08:25 PM.
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  #219  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:49 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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My view is that many of these incidents involve hitting a pothole, landing in turf and sinking into the ground etc.
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  #220  
Old 01-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Captain Avgas Captain Avgas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo View Post
I respectfully disagree.

I think if you go back and look at the landing again you'll see that there is daylight between the nose wheel and the ground for almost all of the high speed part of the rollout. The nosewheel may have momentarily scuffed a high spot in the pavement, but only hard enough to gently start the wheel spinning. I have a unique perspective for this particular 8A's landings, as I keep my RV hangared right off the bravo turnoff (midpoint) on this runway. I have seen it land dozens of times, always with the nosewheel held an inch or so off the pavement. Kay is very good at landing, as he is retired and flies it nearly every day.

In this particular landing Kay was carrying a little more speed because there were other aircraft from the formation flight landing just behind him. This resulted in a slightly faster rollout, so the wheel was probably only 1 inch or less above the surface. And since it was around 1,500 feet away from me, the lens doesn't pick up this level of detail.

Kindest,

Doug Reeves
(the guy who shot the video - and playing the video back on a large screen TV absolutely shows daylight between the nosewheel and the pavement - but only about an inch)
Doug, you must have much better eyes and equipment than me. And I admire your willingness to defend a friend.

However what I see is the aircraft accelerate on take-off and the nose gear is firmly planted until rotation (typical spam can take-off).

On landing I see the nose gear positively contact the runway less than 1 second after the mains which indicates a very flat landing (typical spam can landing).

I'll have to take your word for it that there may be some sliver of daylight under the tire for some period after the first nose wheel contact but I'd be quite comfortable in saying that Mike Seager would not regard this take-off or landing as an illustration of best RV(A) practice in virtually nil wind conditions. Others may form their own opinion.
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Last edited by Captain Avgas : 01-13-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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