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  #1  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:26 AM
JoeB JoeB is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Omaha NE
Posts: 85
Default what to build...how to build...I think i am crazy.

I am sure you have had this topic a few hundred times, so
well..
sorry.........

I am currently flying a perfectly good 1974 PA-28/180.......
but like most of you I want something
1.)new
2.)not the 300K that Piper/Cessna/Cirrus charge you
3.)Fast 200ish MPH
4.)Around 1000 mile range or better
5.) 4 Seats with some room for cargo
6.) can do a grass strip if I wanted it to
7.) can cross the Rockies/operate out of High density alt with out trouble

With that I have narrowed the search to 2 primary choices.

1. TEAM TANGO's Foxtrot 4
it looks sleek and posts better numbers overall that Anything else out there and seems like a fairly quick build. So far i have been leaning toward that airplane. (www.teamtango.com)

2. Vans RV-10 well you all know the great things about this airplane.


My usual mission right now is myself, my wife our 2 80lb Labs and a bag or 2
for a weekend get a way, and the usual around the flag pole pattern flying.
I am a first time builder, I am very motivated with a supportive, but skeptical spouse on the subject.

I have not had a test flight in either aircraft as I cant find any in my local area of Omaha. NE
I was wondering if anyone has weighed the pros
and cons of these two types? I am stuck and can't really figure out what the best route would be composite or RV.

The RV has awesome support, but for whatever reason the construction seems a little more intimidating.

The Foxtrot only has 2 flying completions, they seem like good airplanes so i am not sure if that is a red flag of concern, a company has to start somewhere.......

I am in the Military and will be spending about 4-6 months a year overseas deployed so i am looking for a project that can be completed with max effort while I am home and but still not take 4 years to finish... I am hoping for a 1-2 year build.......

since I am new to the Builder community Any and all inputs are helpful I just want to be well educated before i end up too far over my head.

thanks

JOE
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  #2  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:42 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default Welcome to VAF!!!!

Joe, welcome to the good ship VAF

It is good to see you aboard.

The specs for the Tango are indeed impressive, gotta agree.

I would urge caution on just reading the stuff on paper-----as you say, there are only 2 of them flying. They do mention that the numbers quoted are for a 300hp engine-----

One thing that can be said for Vans designs, they are almost always rated conservatively.

Also, there are a lot of Rv10s flying, and the support is beyond belief.

I suggest you try to get a ride in each of the planes, and do a seat of the pants comparison.

Good luck,
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #3  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:44 AM
pierre smith's Avatar
pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
Default Joe, of course I'm biased...

...but my -10 is not my first RV either. I've flown PA28-180's and compared to either of my RV's, I'd throw rocks at them

There are now over 330 -10's flying and a pile more under construction and I personally, haven't read one complaint or unhappy -10 owner. The "other" composite airplane you've looked at has only two flying a big concern for sure....will they even be around a few years from now....you know Van's will. Why do you think there are over 7,000 RV's flying and at least that many more under construction?

We go into 2500' grass strips with both the -6 and the-10 and also get a 200 MPH TAS and around a 14 1/5 GPH burn. The room and comfort of the -10 is hard to beat as well. Your two 80 Lb dogs is like having only three people aboard and that leaves room for near 300 extra #'s you can carry.

Best,
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Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga

It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132


Dues gladly paid!
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  #4  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:20 PM
erich weaver's Avatar
erich weaver erich weaver is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: santa barbara, CA
Posts: 1,682
Default

Does the Tango have a web-based "Air Force" support site with thousands of contributors?

It is difficult to overestimate the value of thousands of completed aircraft.

erich
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  #5  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:42 PM
SlowJoe's Avatar
SlowJoe SlowJoe is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 39
Default Plastic or Metal?

I'm not building yet, but I've been working toward that step for the past year or so. I think another big question you have to answer is whether you prefer to work with metal or composite construction techniques. I suggest you go to a couple EAA SportAir workshops and get some hands on experience with both construction techniques. since you are looking at thousands of hours of hands-on time with the project, you better enjoy the process and not just focus on the finished plane.

I never really even thought composite was the way I wanted to go.
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Joe Pringle
Paid =VAF= dues through 2013
First Solo June 5, 2012. Plugging away on my Private license.
RV 7 Preview Plans in Hand (although I'm strongly considering the 14)
Sport Air Sheet Metal Workshop Completed
RV tools acquired. Practice airfoil completed.
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:44 PM
miyu1975's Avatar
miyu1975 miyu1975 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,069
Default

Code:
perfectly good 1974 PA-28/180.......
compared to what?
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Ryan Allen, CFII

RV7 N612RA, flying since july 2012
E-170/175
RV10 Tail Kit complete, Wings 90%, fuse on order
Acro Sport 2, building
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  #7  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:48 PM
RV7Ron's Avatar
RV7Ron RV7Ron is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 590
Default

Although I'm not in the camp of believing that "anyone" can build one of these as some are (at least not without significant help). Thats a personal evaluation you need to make. Keep this in mind, it looks way more intimidating before you start, than what it actually is in reality.

Its been said many, many times by people smarter and with way more experience than I. Its perseverance that will get you through more than anything else, including technical skills...you have to be "bulldogged" determined to finish it in my opinion. That's key.
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Ron Duren
Mechanical Engineer
"SportAir PhD"-RV Assembly/Composites/Electrical
Denver, CO (KBJC)
RV-7 'Tip Up'
Flying!! as of 3/16/14
IO-375/WW 200G-CS/SkyView/Dual P-mags
N531R "Wablosa" Wings of Red
http://www.ronsrv7project.blogspot.com
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  #8  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:16 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeB View Post
The Foxtrot only has 2 flying completions, they seem like good airplanes so i am not sure if that is a red flag of concern, a company has to start somewhere.......
I would most definitely consider that a red flag of concern for a first-time builder. Yes, a company has to start somewhere, but let experienced builders work out the construction kinks and build field history on the new design. A novice builder shouldn't be a beta tester.......

Building your own aircraft is a fascinating journey, ensure your enjoyment of it by taking advantage of an existing builder and support base.
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Sam Buchanan
RV-6
Fokker D.VII replica

Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 01-05-2011 at 01:22 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:37 PM
Phil's Avatar
Phil Phil is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Waco, Texas
Posts: 1,658
Default

Great advice all the way through.

330 is nowhere close to 2. The reality is that you're still a pioneer if you go the 2 route and being a pioneer is nowhere you want to be. Anytime you're off the plans your time easily doubles.

Vans plans are very clear. The airplane performs (it's proven it 330 times). There are numerous mods available and aftermarket products that will save you time. (You did say time was important -right?)

It's a no brainer to me.
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  #10  
Old 01-05-2011, 01:52 PM
N941WR's Avatar
N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
Default Simple answer...

There is a reason why over 7,000 RV's are flying.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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