Crosswinds with tail vs nose wheel

[diamond]

I've read several times about how the RV tail wheel aircraft do quite well with crosswinds, but can someone give me some numbers to bear that out? For instance, at what cross wind speeds do landings become "challenging" or even unadvised in a TW vs NW? I'm still trying to decide whether to go TW vs NW and plan on flying from a grass strip a good deal of time. If the difference in handling characteristics are minimal, I would probably lean toward a NW just for the improved visibility.

[Kevin Horton]

The ability of the pilot will be a much bigger factor than the limitations of the aircraft. I know some guys who won't their fly their NW aircraft if the crosswinds are greater than 10 kt. Other guys on here will fly their TW RVs with over 30 kt of crosswind.

The most crosswind I've seen so far in my RV-8 was about 15 kt, and it was no big deal at all. I hope to gradually open up the crosswind envelope to quite a bit more than that, but I need to find the right winds so I can increase the level of difficulty in small steps.

[N941WR]

Originally Posted by Kevin Horton

The ability of the pilot will be a much bigger factor than the limitations of the aircraft. I know some guys who won't fly if the crosswinds are greater than 10 kt. Other guys on here will fly their TW RVs with over 30 kt of crosswind.

The most crosswind I've seen so far in my RV-8 was about 15 kt, and it was no big deal at all. I hope to gradually open up the crosswind envelope to quite a bit more than that, but I need to find the right winds so I can increase the level of difficulty in small steps.

It couldn't have been said better.

Back when I had my 1941 T-Craft I would fly on days when 172 pilots were afraid of the cross wind. Not that I'm an exceptional pilot but it is more about personal limitations and currancy than where the little wheel is.

Put the little wheel where you want it and you will develop the skills you need.

[apkp777]

I doubt there is little difference in the airplanes controllability NS vs TW. But one thing is for sure, you need to start conservative then increase gradually. I wouldn't avoid a tailwheel just for fear of crosswinds.

I started out with a self imposed limit of 5 kts. Now, 135 hours later, I just stay away from huuricanes. I think the most i have done is 15 or 17kts with gusts to 22 or so.

Conquer the rudder, and you conquer the cross wind.

[foka4]

Pilot abilities aside, one significant limitation in crosswind performance is the capability of the rudder to maintain directional control as the aircraft slows to taxi speed. If the rudder is at the stop and the plane is still nosing into the wind, you've reached a practical limit of crosswind capability and have the perfect setup for a beautiful ground loop.

Does anyone have a sense of what this limitation is in an RV?

As an interesting data point, the Cessna 140 still has a reserve of rudder authority in crosswind speeds of 30kts. My intuition tells me an RV would easily be in the same ballpark.

Regarding pilot ability, I agree 100% with those who advocate practicing in incrementally higher crosswind speeds to develop a comfort level with it. This requires no superhuman skill and provides a great deal of comfort when listening to the ATIS on the weary end of a long XC trip. I tend to look crosswind landing as a necessary skill for using an aircraft as transportation, and pilots are well advised to develop crosswind proficiency no matter where the wheels are. With this approach, a tailwheel isn't an operational limitation.

Matthew

[n5lp]

Originally Posted by foka4

Pilot abilities aside, one significant limitation in crosswind performance is the capability of the rudder to maintain directional control as the aircraft slows to taxi speed. If the rudder is at the stop and the plane is still nosing into the wind, you've reached a practical limit of crosswind capability and have the perfect setup for a beautiful ground loop...

I think there is more to it than rudder power. Rudder is important at higher speeds but as you slow down the nose-wheel airplane has brakes to aid in directional control. The tail-wheel airplane has brakes and tail-wheel steering.

As Kevin said, pilot technique is the biggest thing.

[avengingangel]

It's a practicality thing. Don't let tail wheels scare you off. I transitioned to tail wheel in my old rv4.
I always two point because i find i have much more control over the aircraft. Just fly it on.

[foka4]

Originally Posted by n5lp

I think there is more to it than rudder power. Rudder is important at higher speeds but as you slow down the nose-wheel airplane has brakes to aid in directional control. The tail-wheel airplane has brakes and tail-wheel steering.

As Kevin said, pilot technique is the biggest thing.

You're 100% correct. I know that to say crosswind capability depends strictly on rudder authority is to oversimplify matters. However, I think we all agree that when pilot ability is taken out of the discussion, different airframes do have different capacities to handle strong crosswinds.

It would be interesting to compare the tailwheel RVs to the tricycle RVs from this perspective. What is the limiting factor of crosswind capability in an RV? Maybe we could start by conceding that a crosswind faster than the clean stall speed would be too much, since you wouldn't be able to taxi off the runway.


M

[apkp777]

The most I have ever done in any airplane is 27kts (citabria). It was terrifying! I did 19kts in a 152. That too was intense. In mine 9, gusts to 22 wasn't horrible, but I was definately dancing on the pedals.

Not having much time in the A model RV's, I have to wonder how much the castering nose wheel limit crosswind capability? It has to be on par with the TW. The other thing is, the 9 has a huge rudder. Probably slightly more capable than a 6?

Has anyone had their tailwheel caster in a crosswind landing?

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by apkp777

Not having much time in the A model RV's, I have to wonder how much the castering nose wheel limit crosswind capability? It has to be on par with the TW. The other thing is, the 9 has a huge rudder. Probably slightly more capable than a 6?

Has anyone had their tailwheel caster in a crosswind landing?

Larger rudder/vertical stabs...........also allow the crosswinds to have a more pronounced effect in yawing the aircraft. It's all a tradeoff.

I haven't seen the castering nosewheel, as having any effect in a crosswind. Just get the nose straight before the mains & then nosewheel touch. The mains on A models are farther aft than taildraggers. That has a tendency to balance the fore & aft sections of the aircraft, as the wind blows to the side of the fuselage. That really is the advantage of nosewheels, although the intensity varies between designs.

L.Adamson --- RV6A