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12-24-2010, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 21
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FatBoy Throttle Quadrant and Flight Control Talk
Hello RVers,
I wanted to try and get a wide open dialogue going here regarding all things "Throttle Quadrant" and "Flight Control". I have had quite a bit of success with my FatBoy grips (think slightly modified AR15 rifles and you'll get the picture or visit the site -- www.fatboythrottlequadrants.com), and as we go into a new year we are currently working on some design changes/additions based on customer suggestions.
I have had recent conversations with various airline/career, military and GA pilots and switches are invariably a hot topic. So I wanted to try and get some feedback before we commit to new grip and switch offerings.
We are looking at providing more of a selection regarding switching. Does anyone have any personal thoughts/perspective on toggle (double and single pole) and/or 4way mini trim hats, as well as momentary on push buttons? I'd like to find out folks' ideas regarding the following. I'd really appreciate a "have your cake and eat it too" dialogue here. If you really could have anything and everything in a throttle and flight control grip, especially as it relates to your home built project (not to an F-18 fighter jet, although that would be nice) what would it be? ::
1. If you don't already have a quadrant or grip picked out for flight controls and quadrants, what are you looking for in general?
2. What type of electronics would you like to see in a throttle quadrant vs. a flight control grip?
3. Toggle switch: one or two circuits, type of toggle (concave button, standard, convex button), 2, 3, 4 toggles, any other specifications
4. 4way hat switch: where on a grip should this go? what should it be used for? Put it on the flight control stick, both throttle and stick, 2 on the stick and 2 on the throttle, no thanks, none for me?
5. What switch functionality should be left on the flight control grip vs. throttle control grip?
6. Type, number and location of push buttons (momentary on, push on) and position on the throttle/flight grip.
7. Push to talk button -- the ex-fighter jocks are quite religious about this being on the throttle grip. Any other ideas?
8. Centermounts! -- We are currently mounting the throttle grip with a fairly low profile, almost parallel with the quadrant top which gives as much panel clearance and visibility as possible. Any ideas here on electronics as well as placement? I heard from David Shelton (RV10 group) on another thread a good point: how to make the grip symmetrical so that both left and right pilots can use it and have the finger knurls feel the same.
Answer all these questions and I personally guarantee you a white Christmas. Well, if you have any other ideas or suggestions, they are greatly appreciated. This is an area that I think is long overdue for an overhaul of sorts.
Thanks very much for your time, and Happy Holidays to everyone --
Andy
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12-24-2010, 10:45 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 479
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My ideas
Flight Control Joystick:
-Push to talk button (button)
-A/P Disconnect (button)
-Smoke System trigger (small toggle w/arming switch on panel)
-China Hat that will control my EFIS/GPS inputs
Throttle Quadrant (built within a center council):
-Maybe another push to talk button
-Elevator Trim
__________________
Rick from Fresno
RV-7A
The art to flying lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
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12-24-2010, 11:07 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Rockford, IL
Posts: 501
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I'm one of those old fighter pilots who's religious about having the PTT on the end of the throttle lever. I don't have any other requirements for switches on the throttle.
I think a stick should have a 4-way china hat for elevator and aileron trim, a momentary pushbutton switch for autopilot coupling/CWS, and maybe another pushbutton for smoke or comm flip-flop. That's it. Simple, light, and simple. Did I mention simple?

__________________
Buck Wyndham
Northern Illinois
RV-8 N18XL
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12-24-2010, 11:51 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckWynd
That's it. Simple, light, and simple. Did I mention simple?

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ah, the absolute joy and wonderfully easy world of simplicity. duly noted.
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12-24-2010, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Elkhart, Indiana
Posts: 1,186
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I sure love having my flap switch on my throttle handle. With auto-up feature (and microswitch on the flap motor to shut it off when fully up), it's easy to activate since my hand is already on the throttle when in the pattern.
As I mentioned on another thread, I may re-route my electric fuel pump switch to the throttle as well, because it's a pain to either switch hands on the stick or reach across with my left hand to turn the pump on or off. I didn't think of that when laying out the electrical system. I just used Van's wiring kit.
Those are two indispensible features of an RV throttle, IMO.
__________________
Don McNamara
Peoria, AZ
Builder: RV-8 "Smokey"
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12-24-2010, 01:35 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,024
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I like it
I ordered a set of replacement FatBoy levers for my DJM quadrant because I liked the looks of the levers. I finally had a chance to mount them in my quadrant yesterday and my impressions and thoughts are:
It was very easy to drill the levers to fit the TQ I have, even with the steel levers vs the aluminum ones.
Even though I really liked the DJM quadrant, I think the look the new levers provide is better.
There is no difference in the levers and installation/retrofit is pretty painless.
For my installation, the coiled wire might be a bit too big and I may need to move to a smaller diemater cable, since I am only using two momentary switches on the throttle anyway.
As for switches, I chose two momentary switches on the throttle....one for smoke and one for TXP ident. I did this mainly because the Infinity grips already have everything else on them. (In my case, PTT, trim hat, Flaps, boost pump and starter (in sequence with a main arm switch) and flip/flop / AP disc.)
Since a lot of the RV8s have Infinity grips, most folks would use fewer switches on the throttle, but side by side folks might want a wider selection of switches on their throttles.
My opinion is that a selection of switches, that can be put in the grips when ordered, might be the best way. Most everyone wants it their way, which doesn't usually match what everyone else likes. (That's how Infinity does it.)
As a final comment, I found Andy, at FatBoy, extremely easy to work with and I recommend giving him a call if you are looking for a new TQ or to update what you already have.
I'll post a picture of my installation in the next week or so to show a retrofit example.
__________________
Steve Formhals
A&P, Tech Counselor & Flight Advisor
RV3B
RV8
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12-24-2010, 01:51 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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I have about 250 hours on Dayton's TQ and while building I thought it might be nice to have the flap switch on the throttle but after doing my panel layout and mounting the switches where I can reach them while my hand is resting on the TQ, in no way do I want any switch on my throttle.
The reason I don't want buttons on the throttle is that I don't want to bump the throttle when I need to transmit or do anything else. For formation flying, this requirement might be different but since I do limited formation work, HOTS is not an issue for me. However, with careful panel layout, you wind up with that w/o the need to add complexity.
Also, when doing formation work, I rest my hand on the TQ and hook the throttle lever with the thumb of my right hand. I have found that in GA aircraft, using the "T" of throttle quadrant results in gross movements when what you really want is fine movements.
I'm very happy with the "stock" DJM TQ.
Just my $.02
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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12-24-2010, 02:23 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Stick Grip Idea
I have Infinity grips in both the -8 and the new -3 we are building, because overall, they it me and my requirements better than anything else I have seen. That does not, however, mean that they are perfect! One thing I have always thought could be better is to move the trim coolie hat to where your thumb naturally rests. Think about it - if you put your hand out in front of you like you are grasping a stick, your thumb does not rest naturally on the top center of the stick (unless it is a round grip). for "righties", it is on the left side, and slightly below the top.
Take a look at this grip:
Yes, it's from the Space Shuttle, and the grip is a bit large to accommodate gloved hands. But it is the most natural location for a trim hat of any grips I have tried. The ironic thing is that in this vehicle, we never use the trim, because the flight control system is rate command/attitude hold, the net feeling for the pilot being that it is always in trim.
I'd love to see this idea in an RV grip - much more natural than having your finger on the trim toggle (which is usually what is there on an Infinity). I like the trim toggle on the stick, but if it was swapped with the coolie hat, it would feel better to me.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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12-24-2010, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sturbridge, MA
Posts: 38
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I'm also from the fighter pilot school of thought... PTT on each throttle (one for each pilot), and a 4-way trim switch on the stick. No autopilot or smoke for me.
John
__________________
RV-6A. Wing in Progress.
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12-24-2010, 10:25 PM
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Opulence, I has it...
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX
Posts: 830
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Andy--
We've already discussed the fuel pump switch on the throttle via email...but I tend to agree with the PTT there as well, I just didn't want to press my luck with you  With both on the throttle, I'd have to think about which goes where, but I'd prefer them both there versus control stick and panel mounted.
Control stick wise, I'd like to see the 4 point trim switch, a thumb actuated flap switch (momentary up or down, off in the center), and an AP disconnect.
I'm not a big fan of the "military style" stick grips, although I realize the Infinity gives me pretty much want I want/am asking from you. If you could couple these desires into your grips...ship it out!
Joe
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Joe Ferraro
DFW, VAF #17
SOLD
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