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  #1  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:14 PM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
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Posts: 1,457
Default ADS-B out

Why do so many feel ADS-B OUT has nothing to do with safety?

If the OUT functionality provides your location, altitude, track, speed to all the IN users doesn't this help them avoid a midair with you? Seems like a safety enhancement to me.

If nobody has the OUT then the IN won't have info to provide TIS correct?

Last edited by RV8R999 : 12-03-2010 at 06:14 PM. Reason: blah blah
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2010, 06:52 PM
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ColoCardinal ColoCardinal is offline
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 372
Default ADS-B

I couldn't agree more. I don't see the safety aspects of each aircraft having a "personal code", (big brother?) but "see and be seen" with the Mark 20 doesn't work well enough for my comfort level at closing speeds at close to 400 mph. Having others able to see me and being able to see others is almost as important to me as landing with fuel left in the tanks. I don't want to fly in the system constantly to get that. I'm planning on having ADS-B in & out with traffic displayed on the EFIS' moving map.
Practicing approaches with people in the traffic area reporting 3 miles out, when in fact they are 5 or 6 miles out, can sure get interesting. I'd like to KNOW where they are instead of relying on them (or me) making bad guesses.
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2010, 11:35 PM
Daniel Hooper Daniel Hooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
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Default

I've been hearing a lot of Big Brother talk about ADS-B and unique codes, but this seems to have been taken care of by AOPA, at least in certain situations...

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/article...the_fleet.html (next to last paragraph)

This is the only place I've ever seen that bit of information though. Anybody know more?
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  #4  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:11 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default The safest way to avoid a mid air is don't fly

I'm sorry if that offends you but the number of people flying is going down - not up. The number of pilots is less than 2/3 of the number 30 years ago. That is a mid air collision avoidance factor. We already have a requirement for transponders in congested airspace which provides an in and out function in appropriate conditions without unique aircraft identification and indiscriminate tracking by whoever wants to do it. Not only will there be an installation cost & complexity but there will be a recurring certification cost, additional risk of prosecution for failure to comply with a whole new set of regulations and associated legal costs. This is my freedom you are tramping on as well as your own. Maybe that is an out of date concept but I still want to keep it.

Bob Axsom
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:41 AM
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sprucemoose sprucemoose is offline
 
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Default

While it may be a safety enhancement, the real question is- is the increase in safety worth the cost to provide it? Nobody could argue that grounding the entire GA fleet wouldn't make things safer, but at too high a cost. The question is where doe ADS-B out fall on the continuum of "do nothing--------ground the whole fleet."

So much is likely to change between now and 2020 that it is foolish to adopt now. Sort of like buying your EFIS along with your tail kit.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2010, 09:29 AM
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kentb kentb is offline
 
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Location: Canby, Oregon
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Default I am loving my ADS-B.

I have both IN & OUT (NavWorx). Without the OUT you are not guaranteed to get the IN. The system needs aircraft to participate to make it work to it best. My EFIS displays the targets and I can visually pick out anything that it displays with in five miles of me with in 3 seconds.
You still need to keep you eyes outside the airplane, but I know that it is easy to miss targets. Because of ADS-B, I can see (on the EFIS) traffic that will intercept my very far off and adjust my course to avoid the interception.

The system in my area (Oregon) is on and I think that it is on most places in the US by the end of the year.
I will also be getting the benefit of free weather.

For $2500.00 I think that this is the best upgrade to my airplane since I bought my TT autopilot. Makes flying in congested areas much safer.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2010, 10:13 AM
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GrayHawk GrayHawk is offline
 
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Location: TexaRado
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentb View Post
I have both IN & OUT (NavWorx). Without the OUT you are not guaranteed to get the IN. The system needs aircraft to participate to make it work to it best. My EFIS displays the targets and I can visually pick out anything that it displays with in five miles of me with in 3 seconds.
You still need to keep you eyes outside the airplane, but I know that it is easy to miss targets. Because of ADS-B, I can see (on the EFIS) traffic that will intercept my very far off and adjust my course to avoid the interception.

The system in my area (Oregon) is on and I think that it is on most places in the US by the end of the year.
I will also be getting the benefit of free weather.

For $2500.00 I think that this is the best upgrade to my airplane since I bought my TT autopilot. Makes flying in congested areas much safer.
What form does the "free" weather take on, with a NavWorx system & compatable EFIS?
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2010, 11:37 AM
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kentb kentb is offline
 
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Location: Canby, Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayHawk View Post
What form does the "free" weather take on, with a NavWorx system & compatable EFIS?
I have NavWorx hooked up to my Garmin 496 and my AFS 3500 EFIS. The 496 only supports TIS-A so is more limited then the AFS (no weather, 7 targets and 7 miles range).
The AFS is connected with TIS-B and FIS. I am using a beta version of the AFS software that is one month old and it doesn't display the weather. I just talked to Rob Hickman (AFS), and he tested his newest code on Saturday. I has weather, 3D traffic, TAF and NOTAMS are coming. He said that the code would be released very soon. I'll get another version of the beta code before I go flying again to test it.

Now just to wait for the weather to be nice enough to go flying.

Kent
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2010, 11:51 AM
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GrayHawk GrayHawk is offline
 
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Location: TexaRado
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentb View Post
I have NavWorx hooked up to my Garmin 496 and my AFS 3500 EFIS. The 496 only supports TIS-A so is more limited then the AFS (no weather, 7 targets and 7 miles range).
The AFS is connected with TIS-B and FIS. I am using a beta version of the AFS software that is one month old and it doesn't display the weather. I just talked to Rob Hickman (AFS), and he tested his newest code on Saturday. I has weather, 3D traffic, TAF and NOTAMS are coming. He said that the code would be released very soon. I'll get another version of the beta code before I go flying again to test it.

Now just to wait for the weather to be nice enough to go flying.

Kent
Yes but when you say "It has weather", what exactly is meant? Graphical overlays, on the moving map, of critical info like precip, winds, etc?? Is there a document that desribes what is available and then I guess it's up to the EFIS what gets displayed?
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2010, 07:32 AM
MeGiron MeGiron is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 81
Default FIS-B weather services

I know my post does not address specifically any particular avionics suite's capabilities, but this is what is available that an avionics provider could provide programming for via ADS-B IN. (Equipment capabilities deem FIS-B is not available to 1090ES due to bandwidth issues on that frequency, so UAT (978mhz) is the only way to get the FIS-B product. TIS-B is available to both). Some ground stations (legacy...meaning original) may not currently support all of these products, but as they are upgraded these services will then be available.

The following excerpt is from the FAA webpage:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...l_information/

What are the ADS-B In broadcast services?

ADS-B In services consist of the Flight Information Service-Broadcast (FIS-B) and the Traffic Information Service-Broadcast (TIS-B).
FIS-B provides a broad range of textual/graphi*cal weather products and other flight relevant information to UAT equipment users (FIS-B is not available on 1090ES) to enhance situational awareness. FIS-B includes the following:

Aviation Routine Weather Reports (METARs)
Non-Routine Aviation Weather Reports (SPECIs)
Terminal Area Forecasts (TAFs) and their amendments
NEXRAD (regional and CONUS) precipitation maps
Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) Distant and Flight Data Center
Airmen?s Meteorological Conditions (AIRMET)
Significant Meteorological Conditions (SIGMET) and Convective SIGMET
Status of Special Use Airspace (SUA)
Temporary Flight Restrictions (TFRs)
Winds and Temperatures Aloft
Pilot Reports (PIREPS)
TIS-B service status
TIS-B is an advisory-only service available to both 1090ES and UAT equipment users which aids in the visual acquisition of surrounding transponder-based traffic to increase situational awareness.
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