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  #11  
Old 12-16-2010, 06:03 AM
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RV10inOz RV10inOz is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,271
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Having flown the RV12 with Van, I found it a delight to fly.

Pretty hard to go past one!

Are you going to build it here in Brisbane? PM me if you want to see some RV's and how to build them. we have some good RV Guru's around here!

DB
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:23 AM
Jack Tyler Jack Tyler is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 219
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Very helpful comments so far...and also thoughtful ones. Keep 'em coming, please.

DB, most likely building in the USA. But we'll be back in Brissie early February and I am hoping to plug into the local aviation scene then. I'll PM you for some coaching on how to accomplish that - all we know about Oz has to do with sailing! - once we return.

I've posted this same request on the RANSCLAN forum - see http://www.ransclan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1791 if interested - and those comments also strike me as balanced and thoughtful.

Summing it all up so far, these seem to be the tentative take-aways from the postings:
-- S-19 is a bit more like a 'real' airplane, the sliding canopy (like our old AA-5) is a plus, fit out of the -19 is nicer, and both fuel location and baggage area add'l "pro's" for the S-19
-- this forum & the VAF community, and also Vans' long-term familiarity with metal fabrication favor the -12...and she will be lighter by perhaps 100#
-- No consensus emerging (yet) on ease of build, since the comments vary on this; however, if Vans offers a QB kit in the future, that is likely to make a significant difference in build time
-- Performance - the 'fun to fly' factor - comparable. Suitability for our needs - cross country 'legs' plus currency flying - comparable.
-- and finally, there's no 'bad' choice between these two mfgrs and their aircraft. I find much in the LSA marketplace right now to be quite troubling (from a product maturity and safety standpoint). It's easy to overlook the value inherent in these two designs, from what I can tell so far, when just looking at LSA's on the ramp.

Again, keep 'em coming and many thanks,

Jack
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:03 AM
Gary 40274 Gary 40274 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Conyers GA
Posts: 347
Default Engine Choice

I have helped build the S-19 with a friend and appreciated that the Jabiru 3300 was available as an option for engine. I am an old guy that just can't get comfortable with the Rotax (hold the flames please) (gear reduction, liquid cooling plumbing) and the Jabiru offers a simple FWF install that is more traditional.

But to mirror the consensus here either plane would be great and be fun to build and fly.

Gary Specketer
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:07 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
Default RV vrs RANS Cost Comparison...

One item not factored is so far is cost. Just so happens I've been doing some pricing of LSA's and here is what it looks like comparing these two airplanes.
(This is going EAB to keep it apples to apples.)

The S-19 price sheet indicates it will cost $50,050.

The RV-12 comes in at $48,750.

(no avionics with either - both with the 912 ULS and prop)

The RV-12 engine package appears a bit high but it includes the prop and about 600 other parts forward of the firewall. It is complete down to cotter pins and washers. Don't know how complete the RANS engine kit is, the prop is separate for sure and no mention of the mount.

On the other end of the spectrum - the Fisher Dakota Hawk is $14,900 plus engine and avionics. There are lots of choices out there.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:35 AM
Jack Tyler Jack Tyler is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 219
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Good of you to bring us back to reality for a moment, David. <s>

And David's post brings up an interesting point: In one of the (vast multitude of) Vans kit comments, the claim is made that a Vans kit includes everything (as in *everything*) needed. Is that true? I get the opposite impression when reading some of your on-line build logs, where advice is given about managing orders of parts and pieces, minimizing shipping costs and so forth.

I don't mean to dismiss a few thousand dollars as 'insignificant' but David's comparative costs strikes me as suggesting neither choice would be driven primarily by cost.

Jack
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2010, 09:48 AM
Gary 40274 Gary 40274 is offline
 
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Location: Conyers GA
Posts: 347
Default Cost savings

Don't forget that being in Oz you will save lots of $$ on shipping the engine if you select the Jabiru

Gary Specketer
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:02 AM
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FresnoR FresnoR is offline
 
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Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tyler View Post
Good of you to bring us back to reality for a moment, David. <s>

I get the opposite impression when reading some of your on-line build logs, where advice is given about managing orders of parts and pieces, minimizing shipping costs and so forth.

Like the other kits that are available, Vans offers the RV-12 in subkits. Wings, Fuselage, etc. What you are seeing is probably people referring to those kits being shipped out individually, as opposed to ordering the entire thing and shipping it at once.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:35 AM
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Noel Simmons Noel Simmons is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Lewistown
Posts: 161
Default Go with Van's

I have flown and built some of the Ran's aircraft and I have built and flown many Van's aircraft.

Handling Van's
Safety Van's

In a simplified view, Van's is a real airplane de-rated for the LSA market
Rans is a inflated ultra light
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:45 AM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noel Simmons View Post
In a simplified view, Van's is a real airplane de-rated for the LSA market
Rans is a inflated ultra light
I might agree with that for a S-6 / Coyote / etc. but do you think the same observation applies to the S-19?
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2010, 12:28 PM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
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Location: Stilwell, KS
Posts: 1,096
Default No Way...

...is the Rans S-19 an "inflated ultralight." We built an S-19 last year and are now building an RV-12. The S-19 went together very much like a Van's kit, and in fact is built much heavier than the RV-12. (hence the higher empty weight and higher max gross if you don't need LSA.)

If you want a good comparison, one of our techs is a very experienced RV-6 & -7 builder, now working on the -12. He spent a lot of time building and test flying the S-19 project and would love to talk with you: call Jabiru USA, 931-680-2800, ask for Mark. Or PM me and I'll send you his email address.

As for quick build? Two guys had the -12 tail feathers done in a work week. Doesn't get much quicker than that!!
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