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  #141  
Old 12-15-2010, 11:44 PM
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rvmills rvmills is offline
 
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Location: Reno, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemmingman View Post
TechDirt just picked up on the plight of RunwayFinder and they have, as usual, a pretty darn good write up here. There is a link to the actual suit filed by FlightPrep on the page as well.
That was a very good write up! If that is representative of what the tech community feels about this case, then it sure matches what the pilot community appears to feel as well. Thanks for the link!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MartySantic View Post
So are you suggesting the builder community should just plain give up on a small company that is providing a FREE service to all of us.
I don't think that's what anyone is suggesting...but rather a strong but measured and considered response. From the posts, it appears that most of us are angered, frustrated, saddened and shocked (well maybe not shocked) by this.

The types of posts Sam is talking about can certainly be damaging to the cause, so as a group, (IMHO) it's best to take the high road, no matter how viceral our reaction.

I received a reply to my e-mail to FlightPrep from one of the owners of the company. Others may have received the same response. To me, it rang hollow, as did their blog entries and any other statements I have seen from them on this. Therefore, my choice is to never do business with them, unless they make this right.

They appear to have made a decision, and now so have I...and they now know how I feel. No slander, no libel...and no $$. Knowing that they are driving potential customers away, and losing current customers may be the only language that resonates...we'll see.

Still pullin' for the little guy!

Best,
Bob
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  #142  
Old 12-16-2010, 07:03 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Maybe VAF could have a "Vendor Good Guy" forum where posters can make comments about vendor experiences. This way these types of things don't get forgotten 6 months or a year down the road. A seperate forum would make it easy to search for feedback about a vendor before making a purchase.
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  #143  
Old 12-16-2010, 08:56 AM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Maybe VAF could have a "Vendor Good Guy" forum where posters can make comments about vendor experiences. This way these types of things don't get forgotten 6 months or a year down the road. A seperate forum would make it easy to search for feedback about a vendor before making a purchase.
Like this one?
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...splay.php?f=93
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  #144  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:12 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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OK, I was just trying to be "politically correct", lets just make it "Don't do Business with these Guys" forum
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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
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  #145  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:21 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartySantic View Post
So are you suggesting the builder community should just plain give up on a small company that is providing a FREE service to all of us.
Not at all, don't be silly. But we've already put 15 pages of support out there. After a certain point, it starts to degenerate into a bad area that the mods have already needed to step in and control. Posting personal contact info for the principals at FP, for example. That invites contact that can border on assault and opens DR and VAF.net up to legal hassles that didn't exist when it was just FP attacking RF.

The sad reality is that the combination of the Patent system and Legal system allows for bullying like this to take place when it's a large company against a small one (or an individual). The depth of your pockets will dictate how well you can defend yourself, unless you can find a sugar daddy like AOPA to get your back. This system can't be fixed by discussing it on VAF.net, all we can do is mourn the loss of RF.
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  #146  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:38 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Default So what are you going to use in place of Runway Finder?

Except for possibly following KentB's impressive 48 state flight this summer, I don't recall using Runway Finder. No diss...just fact. Obviously it was well liked by many and I regret not checking it more completely prior to being shut down (temporary?).

I don't use AOPA, DUATS or similar services. I use my Air Chart Topo Atlas, Airnav, aviationweather.gov, and Flight Service for TFRs. One of the more useful data points is the weather map with LIFR, MVR, IFR and VFR icons on this site:

http://aviationweather.gov/adds/satellite/

I just checked the eastern USA and if I wanted to go to Michigan today from Colorado, I know right away that I would not be flying.

When I was flying more, I had weathermeister for a year and it was excellent. I think I had it set up to provide everything I now use from several sources so it was easy, concise and quick.

Last edited by Ron Lee : 12-16-2010 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Corrected Air Chart name.
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  #147  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:52 AM
krwalsh krwalsh is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee View Post
Except for possibly following KentB's impressive 48 state flight this summer, I don't recall using Runway Finder.

I don't use AOPA, DUATS or similar services. I use my SkyChart, Airnav, aviationweather.gov, and Flight Service for TFRs.
Right there is one of the issues. You so use RunwayFinder, and don't know it. If you use AirNav, and click on the sectional (well, not anymore, but previously) then the sectional was provided by RunwayFinder. If you have ForeFlight on an iPad, I have to assume that you are soon going to lose your sectionals as well, as those are provided by RunwayFinder as well. There are repercussions way beyond just trying to go to runwayfinder.com.

What strikes me as odd is that FlightPrep is not going after AOPA, Jeppesen, etc. If they really believe they have a valid patent, why are they going after the little guys, and not the deep pockets? Is it because drafting a threatening letter is cheap, and litigating with the likes of Jeppesen (Boeing) is going to cost millions, with low probability of positive outcome?
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  #148  
Old 12-16-2010, 10:57 AM
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Auburntsts Auburntsts is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwalsh View Post
What strikes me as odd is that FlightPrep is not going after AOPA, Jeppesen, etc
No surprise to me. They did attempt to get AOPA & Jeppesen to talk and they said pound sand. But unlike runway finder, both AOPA & Jepp have tremendous legal resources that could easily bankrupt FP in a protracted legal fight so no wonder FP (at least to this point) has declined to press them further.
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  #149  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:18 AM
WhiskeyMike WhiskeyMike is offline
 
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Location: WA State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwalsh View Post
What strikes me as odd is that FlightPrep is not going after AOPA, Jeppesen, etc. If they really believe they have a valid patent, why are they going after the little guys, and not the deep pockets? Is it because drafting a threatening letter is cheap, and litigating with the likes of Jeppesen (Boeing) is going to cost millions, with low probability of positive outcome?
It may be FlightPrep's strategy to first "gather up" several of the smaller online flight planning service providers under licensing agreements in order to both solidify their market position and also bolster their standing in the event of a legal fight when they move against the "Bigs" like AOPA and Jeppesen.

BTW, I'm not supporting FlightPrep here...just opining on possible business strategies .
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  #150  
Old 12-16-2010, 11:32 AM
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jcaplins jcaplins is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Davis, CA, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krwalsh View Post

What strikes me as odd is that FlightPrep is not going after AOPA, Jeppesen, etc. If they really believe they have a valid patent, why are they going after the little guys, and not the deep pockets? Is it because drafting a threatening letter is cheap, and litigating with the likes of Jeppesen (Boeing) is going to cost millions, with low probability of positive outcome?

(It should be noted that I have no evidence for what i say. ever.)

Ok, It has been posted somewhere that skyvector has bought a license from FP. There is an ad on skyvector, so perhaps it is worth it for them to have just ponied up the dough, so as to not deal with a lawsuit.

Since skyvector paid, FP would naturally expect everyone else to pay. Since runwayfinder doesn't make money, why would they pay for a license? When runwayfinder said no, they offered to give them a license hoping it would accept while having the threat of a lawsuit over their head.

By having all these licenses out there it will give more legitimacy to FP claim that they actually have a legal right to give licenses and therefore really have a legitimate patent.

FP won't sue AOPA or Jepp because I think they really are bluffing, and can't compete with their lawyers.

I would hope skyvector rejects FP's license, runwayfinder does not accept a free license and AOPA, JEPP, foreflight and others file a lawsuit against FP. Perhaps even a strongly worded letter from the above will put this all to rest.

I would also like to see people talk to their local FBO and have all ASA and related products returned and cancel contracts to sell them. I used to get my FAR/AIM every year from ASA, but not any more.

I know we may all be preaching to the choir here, but if we can keep this subject a priority, something will get done.
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