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12-11-2010, 12:33 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lethbridge, Alberta
Posts: 7
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Yikes, even in the small aviation community, you can find someone ready to "p" in the pool.
We use Runwayfinder ALL THE TIME, it is a wonderful resource.
Here is my stick on the fire:
Quote:
Sirs
I understand that your company is attacking the site: Runwayfinder.com
using dubious patent claims, as is so common with companies out to
litigate rather than innovate nowadays. I have read your open letter on
your site, and find your argument there unconvincing, to say the least.
The aviation community is small, and bullying behaviour such as this
will be sure to eventually find its way back to you. As the saying goes:
"What goes around, comes around".
Be assured, I will never do business, or support your business in any
way. I imagine that many others will follow suit. News of your actions
has spread far and wide already,
In disgust
J. Steve Cronje
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I agree with others who have suggested to contact the EFF. It may be very helpful.
__________________
Currently flying 1974 C182
Planning RV10: + Wife-Pilot-Co-Builder on board and helping pull 
+ Trip to Aurora completed
+ Full set of plans on coffee table
+ Friend with flying RV-8A willing to help
- Working on still-unanswered questions before taking the plunge
http://cronje.ca
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12-11-2010, 12:51 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: MKE
Posts: 1,519
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Sadly, this has been tried before in the software business. Microsoft tried it back in the 90s, ironically around the same time as the JPI/ Matronics issue.
http://www.theonion.com/articles/mic...es-zeroes,599/
__________________
Jeff Point
RV-6, RLU-1 built & flying
Tech Counselor, Flight Advisor & President, EAA Chapter 18
Milwaukee
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12-11-2010, 01:06 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,198
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Software patents
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
...Software patents should be illegal (as they are in Europe). Plain and simple.
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Totally agree. I've been on both sides of this issue in a previous life, and I am convinced that software patents are a huge drain on the economy, and add no value whatsoever. The big guys strongly encourage their employees to patent every trivial snippet of code in an effort to increase the size of their patent portfolio, simply in order to have some defense in case they are attacked. If the ability to patent software were eliminated, huge numbers of hours could be refocused on productive activity.
BTW, I disagree with the "evil lawyers" comments, they are only playing the game as it is presented. The rules of this particular game need to be changed.
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12-11-2010, 01:44 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 125
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Update on aero-news:
FlightPrep Attempts Damage Control
It used to be hard to get the aviation industry to get behind something important... but not-so-much anymore, as the power of the Internet appears to have handed an embattled aviation resource a bit of moral support as they dealt with the threat of legal action from a competitor who received a patent for technologies similar to theirs.
Barely 48 hours ago, RunwayFinder announced that they were shutting their site down because of legal threats from FlightPrep.com over alleged patent infringement. Within a day, RunwayFinder's Dave Parsons published an addendum stating that a compromise appeared to be in the offing and that RunwayFinder had won a reprieve. It didn't end there.
The damage appears to be heavy as far as FlightPrep is concerned. A massive amount of support rallied to the defense of RunwayFinder.com, while the patent holder, 'FlightPrep' attempted to post their defense/rationale on their corporate blog, shortly thereafter... but WITHOUT allowing comments onsite (and judging by comments elsewhere, they probably got tired of the invective... as for the moment, it would be hard to find a more unpopular aero-company than FlightPrep).
__________________
-----
RV-4, O-320, FP
CFII/MEI & dreamer
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12-11-2010, 05:47 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NC25
Posts: 3,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
The ball of bad publicity is still rolling... Two of my friends and I will never give any business to FlightPrep. The info will be reposted on a foreign website as well.
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FlightPrep and ASA are both owned by Stenbock. ASA has a lot of training stuff and books out on the market.
__________________
Gary A. Sobek
NC25 RV-6 Flying
3,400+ hours
Where is N157GS
Building RV-8 S/N: 80012
To most people, the sky is the limit.
To those who love aviation, the sky is home.
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12-11-2010, 06:37 AM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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It looks to me like ASA manuals won't be on my shopping list either.
You know, if your market is measured in the millions of people (like Microsoft or Apple),you can afford to tick off a few folks. With a market as small as the aviation world, that is a mistake a company can't afford to make....
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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12-11-2010, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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What ever happened to doing such a great job at something that everyone wants to come to you. Really, why do you need a patent to keep you in business.
The folks from the Better Business Bureau (Business Bribery Bureau) operate the same way. They want me to pay them hundreds of dollars per year so that they can tell people what a great business I have, when I could just continue to do a great job and let my customers speak for me!
I just downloaded Flight Prep flight planning. It's kind of lame. No charts unless you "subscribe" at $10 a piece per year. Doesn't the FAA publish the charts for free?
P.S. DUAT.COM is free and they have sectional charts. AOPA Flight Planner comes with your membership. EAA has a planner.
__________________
Tony Phillips
N524AP, RV 9 (tail wheel)
Last edited by apkp777 : 12-11-2010 at 07:55 AM.
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12-11-2010, 08:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Orem, UT
Posts: 213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexPeterson
Claim 1 of the patent is below in quotes:
"What is claimed is:
1. A process for generating a flight plan for preflight use by a pilot, comprising: accessing over a computer network from a client computer a Web page having a housekeeping frame and a selected composite travel navigation chart from among plural selected composite travel navigation charts stored at a server computer, each selected composite travel navigation chart including a travel chart merged with travel navigation waypoints, the travel navigation waypoints including radio navigation aids; downloading the Web page with the selected composite travel navigation chart from the server computer to the client computer as a two-dimensional array of map tiles that include up-to-date navigation data and cover an area over which a flight is to be planned; indicating X, Y coordinates of each of a plurality of navigation waypoints on the selected composite travel navigation chart at the client computer; sending the X, Y coordinates of each navigation waypoint to the housekeeping frame of the Web page; and drawing over the selected composite travel navigation chart on the client computer route line segments according to the X, Y coordinates, as instructed by housekeeping frame of the Web page, to generate a flight plan for preflight use by a pilot. "
I believe virtually all of the various on-line planners, including AOPA's for example, could be shown to be prior art in this (I'm not a patent lawyer...). Ever look at Google Earth? I believe I could even make an argument that my Garmin 430 does this, since the data is initially obtained over the internet.
The basic gist of this patent seems to be gathering information from a host computer and organizing it in a way to help with navigation planning on the client's computer.
Patents are very similar to laws - they are subject to challenge in court. Some are valid and involve real invention (like others have written on this thread already), and will stand up to the challenge in court. Many are not.
Will be interesting to follow this.
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If this is what the patent claims, then I suppose Google Maps travel planner also violates the claim. After all, in Goggle Maps I can as for directions from KPVU to KSGU and it will give me a route and distance. Only Google will follow roads and turn at road intersections instead of following straight lines and turning at aviation intersections - not really much different.
It would be a shame if Google Maps had to shut down because they also violate this patent.
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12-11-2010, 08:19 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: WA
Posts: 988
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no 'ta-da' intellect for this patent...
Supporting intellectual patents for emerging technology that becomes self evident afterwards can be a tough call... was the innovation the key to wide discovery or did the idea become broadly obvious as the mass of technology moved forward.
In this case it is pretty clear that there was no 'ta-da' moment... using a digital map sourced from remote servers to plan a route is hardly an innovation, rather it is simply a byproduct of widespread data availability.
__________________
Stephen
RV7 powered by a lycoming thunderbolt IO-390
turning a whirlwind HRT prop
with more hours flying than building... 2,430 on the hobbs!
ORCA Flight
Race 771
margarita!
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12-11-2010, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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What's interesting is that Flight Prep is only going after RunwayFinder and possibly SkyVector. I doubt they want to tackle, AOPA/Jeppeson, DUATs, etc.
Seems pretty low down to me.
__________________
Tony Phillips
N524AP, RV 9 (tail wheel)
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