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POSTING RULES

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12-08-2010, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule
This AC says that the airport can establish reasonable rules. I don't have an issue with these. In fact, I posted them so that if someone has encountered difficulty getting their local authorities off their back, they could point to these as both a precedent and a potential path for approval.
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I don't disagree with safety rules. Just pointing out that the AC does in fact require reasonable rules.
I was more addressing the "flowage" fee - what's the rationale for that? If it's basically just a tax imposed by the city, or a money grab by the airport authority, and the airport gets federal funds, the AC might control. Not to mention, if you've purchased the fuel outside the airport and brought it in, presumably you've already paid taxes on it.
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Jonathan Hines
Charlotte, NC
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12-08-2010, 10:44 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: northern Cal
Posts: 111
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fueling
Anybody heard of shoot shovel and shutup.
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12-09-2010, 04:07 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 924
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I'd just fuel and not ask questions. Easier to get forgivness than to get permission.  But then again, I still live in the dark ages. I haven't caught up to all the political correctness, "I have to have insurance for EVERYTHING," oh, I better get a permit for this, or what's the city going to say about this, blah..blah...blah.... The thing I've noticed, as a contractor for 30 years, and dealing with inspectors or any government official, is when you ask one of them questions, if they don't know the answer, they make up something. Then, it's off to the races for everybody to try to get in your pocket for a fee of some kind and a whole can of worms is opened.
Marshall Alexander
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12-09-2010, 06:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Flowage Fee
It's 6 cents per gallon, you track it and report it (on the honor system) and pay quarterly. The airport manager said that around here it runs 5 to 8 cents a gallon.
He said the city council reviews it every couple of years.
Dave
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12-10-2010, 10:59 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule
It's 6 cents per gallon, you track it and report it (on the honor system) and pay quarterly. The airport manager said that around here it runs 5 to 8 cents a gallon.
He said the city council reviews it every couple of years.
Dave
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Hmmm, I wonder what issue of safety this is designed for? I am not sure I could tolerate that amount of tax or fee or whatever word you chose to call it.
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12-10-2010, 11:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI
Hmmm, I wonder what issue of safety this is designed for? I am not sure I could tolerate that amount of tax or fee or whatever word you chose to call it.
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It pays for your use of the airport facilities.
No requirement for it to be safety-related - it is a separate fuel tax on top of the Federal and State taxes.
If you don't like it, then the local airport owning authority is the outfit to complain to... 
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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12-10-2010, 11:34 AM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tuttle, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
It pays for your use of the airport facilities.
No requirement for it to be safety-related - it is a separate fuel tax on top of the Federal and State taxes.
If you don't like it, then the local airport owning authority is the outfit to complain to... 
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I hear you Gil. However, my thoughts are that if it is a public use airport that is federally funded then all of us should already be paying for the airport facilities through our federal taxes. This additional 6 cents per gallon becomes another additional tax added on top of an existing tax. I do not face this in my current situation but if I did it would be a an issue I would be hard pressed to accept.
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12-10-2010, 05:10 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Huskerland, USA
Posts: 5,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule
8. The city has a "fuel flowage fee" that the City Council sets, and you'll have to report the fuel you dispensed and pay the fee quarterly.
Dave
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Dave, I would ask to see the city's authority to impose a fuel tax. I'm obviously not from your state, but all fuel taxes ("flowage fee" is a tax) have to be approved by the state legislature. Giving each city in any state the authority to levy their own fuel tax would be chaos. Currently, there are state and federal taxes on fuel and sales tax.
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RV-7 : In the hangar
RV-10 : In the hangar
RV-12 : Built and sold
RV-44 : 4 place helicopter on order.
Last edited by Geico266 : 12-10-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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12-10-2010, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVbySDI
I hear you Gil. However, my thoughts are that if it is a public use airport that is federally funded then all of us should already be paying for the airport facilities through our federal taxes. This additional 6 cents per gallon becomes another additional tax added on top of an existing tax. I do not face this in my current situation but if I did it would be a an issue I would be hard pressed to accept.
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It is only partially Federally funded...
Heck... the small fuelling operation at our Airpark averages $1500 - $2000 per year for maintenance (no labor component in that amount), with an extra $2000 this year for a new card reader system... We sell around 32,000 gallons per year, which would be under $2000 at a 6 cent fuel flowage fee.
We could easily call it a fee and and not a tax... 
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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12-11-2010, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Personally, this isn't an issue for me. I buy 100LL at the FBO's pumps for my Cessna 180.
I just posted it because - heck, I've already explained it.
Still, for whatever it's worth, here's some history:
Back in the mid to late '80s, a buddy and I bought a van and installed two transfer tanks, 110 gallons each, with commercial filters, a good meter and a decent 12 V pump. We put some effort into it to make it reliable and get clean fuel. We'd fill it at the local cheap gas station (before ethanol) and drive it to the airport and fill our tanks.
After a few years we decided that it was costing us 50 cents per gallon to maintain the equipment, from insurance to replacement filters. At the time we hadn't asked permission, didn't pay any flowage fees (we would have happily paid the 6 cent a gallon fee to get the city to buy in to the deal) and had unleaded fuel available whenever we needed it.
The system was considerably safe and more sophisticated than some I've seen on VAF. It was nearly a commercial unit in a van.
We eventually quit and got rid of the system. It was too much trouble for the relatively small net savings, especially with car gas available here and there at airports. Besides a certain vulnerability because of being parked outside, neither of us ever got really comfortable with driving the van with a full load of fuel in cross-town traffic.
Dave
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