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  #31  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:11 PM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
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Good post Axel and you are spot on..


Even profesionally trained, mulity thousand hour, multi platform qualified test pilots use a carefully balanced build-up approach for every flight no matter how benign and simple it may seem. Why? Because our egos have proven to get in the way of good judgment - and then we die.

SIG if you are active duty I invite you to review your NATOPs and requirment for use of checklists...I'm sure your CO would appreciate it!
  #32  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:23 PM
chinch chinch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 97
Default Experience does not equal quality decision making processes..

Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777 View Post
A good self-evaluation should be made prior to a first flight. You may discovery that you need someone else to do your first flight.
...so long as you apply the same evaluation criteria to that 'somebody else'.

I watched an RV-4 being flown for the first time at a local airfield about ten years ago. The pilot had looked at all the variables, and had made the decision to find the most experienced pilot he could to test fly his pride and joy, which had been 5 years in the making.

That pilot turned out to be a local CFI with decades of GA experience, and 10K+ hours.

This 'experienced' pilot took off in this brand new aircraft, turned downwind, and promptly executed an aileron roll at circuit height of 800' AGL. I was absolutely stunned beyond belief.

To be fair, I have subsequently flown with that CFI (he was the only person who could sign off on my BFR checkflight) and he seemed to be a very good and relaxed instructor - perhaps a little too laid back.

But I can tell you someone who won't be allowed within 20' of my -8.
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Last edited by chinch : 12-04-2010 at 03:26 PM.
  #33  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:24 PM
PaigeHoffart PaigeHoffart is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 375
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by apkp777 View Post
I thought the stall while fiddling with the radio was awesome. I actually am going to try that. It should be added to the PTS! Not too many people stalling while they are paying attention killing themselves.
If you want to practice channelized attention for your proficiency, I guess that's your call. I'd rather avoid it, use a little CRM, and prioritize.

That aside, why is he doing stalls on the first flight? Is it for his proficiency? Or, is it to determine the stalling characteristics and speed? Paying attention to something else probably isn't the best way to setup a maneuver, or collect data on it, IMHO.

Paige
  #34  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:43 PM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Well It didn't look like a big deal to me but...

I knew when I watched there would be an outcry from the instructor oriented folks when I saw the pilot going through his mental checklist in this super simple airplane. The thing I didn't like was the primer switch configuration and placement. A toggle switch in a row of identical looking toggle switches.

Oh, never mind.

Bob Axsom

Last edited by Bob Axsom : 12-04-2010 at 05:26 PM. Reason: said Aux pump meant primer
  #35  
Old 12-04-2010, 03:45 PM
machineman machineman is offline
 
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Location: Stoughton, MA
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Just my take... but...

I think he means that this is his "first attemp at videoing a flight"...
not a "video of his first flight".

???
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  #36  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:04 PM
sandifer sandifer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 664
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson View Post
It looked like lot of the focus to me! If you've been flying this type of aircraft long enough, you'll certainly know what to be looking for, and if something doesn't feel right. There is no requirement to have a clip board and 15 page questionnaire on the first few rounds around the patch. I'd rather see that temps were in line, that the constant speed prop functions, as well as a few other parameters. Looks like he went through all that, as well as three power off stalls. Between edits, I see that he spends quite a bit of time quickly checking the panel as well as scan.

I really do think this subject is getting overblown. I find myself now reading it for the "soap opera" value. Seriously!

L.Adamson --- RV6A
Cheers...well said.
  #37  
Old 12-04-2010, 05:05 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Here's a reminder folks - you can keep the thread running if you want (if you think there is anything new to add) as long as you keep it civil. You'll note that a number of moderators have commented here - we have our opinions, and let others have theirs - so long as you don't insult other members. We could just delete the opinions different from ours, but we don't do that here.
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  #38  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:06 PM
Daver Daver is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 297
Default boring first flight....

My -RV9A first flight video (if I had made one) would have been boring
compared to this one.

By the book; a shallow climb out to 3000 AGL; gentle turns to remain over the airport.

Then the really exciting part - a couple of approach to stalls

And then, the uneventful landing.

Boring and uneventful is what I thought you wanted in a first flight...

Neat video though. I enjoyed it.

Dave
-9A flying
  #39  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:21 PM
gciampa gciampa is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Posts: 75
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How about a positive, constructive addition to the thread:

AC90-89A

Chapters 2, 3 and 4 for suggestions and safety recommendations;

I used this as a guide with some judgment or lack thereof, added for the environment.
  #40  
Old 12-04-2010, 10:49 PM
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AX-O AX-O is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Well, if the goal is to be constructive?.Let's use the roll as the example. Easy to say "bad doggie", but sooner or later almost everyone rolls their new RV 3-4-6-7 or 8. Assume it flies well. What sort of special inflight checks or tests are advised prior to the simple roll in the video?
Dan,
I respect your opinion and value the contributions you provide on this site. Our approach is crawl before you walk and walk before you run. Yes, the majority of us will do acrobatics in our aircraft. That is why we have them, they are fun and very capable machines.

A lower risk approach to a first flight would be to initially limit certain parameters. An example of that would be something like A/S below 120 KIAS, G?s less than 2.0, altitude less than 2,000 ft AGL, flight time to less than 15 minutes, no spins, ect. Then build up (or in some cases build down). With regards to the roll, maybe limit the angle of bank to 15-20 deg. On each additional flight expanding the envelope 10-15 deg until you test the entire envelope. Although it would be difficult to do because of the overwhelming excitement of a first flight going on, one should be discipline enough to plan the flight prior to take off and fly the plan. Not throw in any ?flare? or unplanned maneuvers. I am not saying that the gentleman did not plan the flight and did not do everything he planned. I am just answering your question regarding the roll.

If the moderators feel that this is getting out of hands, please delete the thread. I certainly did not intent for this to become a ?soap opera? or in any ways derogative to anyone or anyone?s believes. I knew it would get people talking/thinking and I would take shoots on the face like the ?sign of unprofessionalism? comment. But if the pilot that will be performing his/her first flight test is thinking about this and he/she now have more information (like the posted flight test documents) I feel like I am contributing to the aviation community in a positive way. I value aviation, one of my major drives in life is to improve aviation and kept it going for the next generation. The accident rates for Experimental aircraft are way too high, in order to mitigate accidents one should evaluate risks and figure out if the risks are worth it. Not only for myself but for my wife, family, the people on the ground and the next generation of pilots.
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