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  #21  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:14 PM
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Jamie Jamie is offline
 
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One area where I think there is a lot of misunderstanding -- WAAS + TSO'd does not equal an LPV approach-certified unit. In fact, a WAAS TSO'd GPS does not even imply that it is IFR certified. Lots of GPS's have WAAS receivers, even the lowly Garmin 496 (of course it's not TSO'd).

I expect some company, somewhere to come out with a simple, VFR, TSO'd WAAS GPS that will fulffill the ADS-B requirements.
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  #22  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:54 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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It has to happen if grass roots GA is to survive. Small time GA owners cannot take a $10K+ hit....Most of us just barely play in this game as it is.

There is absolutely no reason why this technology has to be so costly to us.

If the Feds want to kill GA, this is a good way to do it.
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Last edited by Brantel : 11-09-2010 at 06:57 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-09-2010, 07:17 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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You can read my case against the ADS-B OUT mandate here

http://stopads-b.org/ADS.htm

I am still opposed to it for GA aircraft.
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2010, 08:36 AM
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Will ADS-B be required for cropdusters?
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2010, 03:11 PM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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Jamie, ADS-B OUT will be mandated, unless my jihad against it prevails, where Mode C transponders are required. There is an AGL exemption in mountainous areas.
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2010, 06:58 PM
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L'Avion L'Avion is offline
 
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Default Taking the Pendulum up to it's Highest Extreme

FTR: I submit that ADS-B is nothing more than BIG BROTHER continuing his intrusive intervention, as heightened surveillance, into our everyday flying, and keeping records of our every move whilst aloft in a vast database that can and will be used against us at his every/any whim; else, why would the word "surveillance" even be in the title of the "thing?"

I would not have a tracking chip inserted in my person so that I could be tracked everywhere I went; I would not have one in my car; and I sure as **** don't want one in any aircraft that I fly for personal use.

I view ADS-B as a serious violation of my freedom (of movement) that ought to be covered under the Fourth Amendment.

IMO, both AOPA and EAA have let us down by not opposing ADS-B for both GA and experimental aircraft. I have been told recently that the FAA has a letter of agreement with AOPA that AOPA will not oppose the institution of ADS-B (as told to a member of both AOPA & EAA). Of course, AOPA has, although not denied, offered only eye-wash and lip service to the allegation that such a letter of agreement exists, and will not produce such letter. If the FAA has taken the time to arrange such an agreement with AOPA, why would we not wonder if they have also entered into such an agreement with the EAA(?). How many of our "advocates" may have let us down in this matter?

That the "thing" might be as much as a $10,000 (or more) added installation expense in both my RV-4 & RV-3, and is abusive in itself, is secondary IMO to the violation of my freedom and personal privacy.

The argument might arise as to why I would be opposed to BIG BROTHER keeping track of me if I weren't doing anything wrong - I would not entertain such argument - if one wishes to argue that point, do it with someone else.

As stated in the title to this message, I will hold a very strong, extremely strong position against the institution of ADS-B for GA and experimental aircraft, if necessary, until it's a dead horse and beaten into dust!

To all: may you continue to enjoy the freedom(s) of flight, without Big Brother watching over your every move.

Barney, in Memphis
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  #27  
Old 11-14-2010, 07:40 AM
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KRviator KRviator is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L'avion
FTR: I submit that ADS-B is nothing more than BIG BROTHER continuing his intrusive intervention, as heightened surveillance, into our everyday flying, and keeping records of our every move whilst aloft in a vast database that can and will be used against us at his every/any whim; else, why would the word "surveillance" even be in the title of the "thing?"
For the exact same reason "surveillance" is used in the term SSR - that would be the Mode A/C code you currently (hopefully?) use...

Quote:
Originally Posted by L'avion
I would not have a tracking chip inserted in my person so that I could be tracked everywhere I went; I would not have one in my car; and I sure as **** don't want one in any aircraft that I fly for personal use.
I wouldn't do the one in the person, but if you think by not having ADS-B you're "invisible" I'd suggest you think again. Very hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by L'Avion
I view ADS-B as a serious violation of my freedom (of movement) that ought to be covered under the Fourth Amendment.
I think you're taking this a bit too far into the "tin foil hat brigade" mentality. No offence, but you sound like the kind of person who wouldn't run a transponder, nor make radio calls in the circuit, lest someone start surveilling you and breaching your fourth-amendment privacy (whatever the **** that is)...

I have absolutely no problem with ADS-B, indeed, view it as a huge leap in traffic awareness when it is fully implemented. I will cerainly have it in my -9, and expect if it was mandated in Australia, that the rest of the flying community would also have it installed and operating. ADS-B is another link in the chain that will stop me becoming a hood ornament on a 737 - for there are plenty of areas where the only seperation between us is visually.

Afterall, ADS-B is nothing more than a "certified" version of APRS tracking.
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  #28  
Old 11-14-2010, 08:17 AM
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Ron Lee Ron Lee is offline
 
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KRviator, there is a huge difference between ADS-B Out and a Mode C transponder. No one knows who you are with a transponder if you are not on an assigned code. ADS-B Out is identifiable by aircraft, so in my case it is me.

ADS-B Out is not the end all means of traffic avoidance that you think. If you stay out of areas now that require Mode C, you can avoid ADS-B Out. I suspect that many people will not equip.

So unless equipage is 100%, it is not even close to a perfect solution. Plus to get traffic you must have ADS-B IN. How much will that cost for people with steam gauges?

My multiple conversations with AOPA to voice my opposition have not been very useful. It is almost like they don't care. Thinking about that, I am going to cancel my AOPA membership.

If you think that ADS-B coverage is great for GA..think again.

Last edited by Ron Lee : 11-14-2010 at 08:27 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:19 AM
RV8R999 RV8R999 is offline
 
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Oh brother
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  #30  
Old 11-14-2010, 09:59 AM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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And here I am trying to figure out a way to get ADS-B IN on my C172 today, rather than waiting for the rest of the world to jump in, and it will be installed from the word go on my 9A.

I want the traffic awareness and the weather in the cockpit, and I know it won't be fully implemented for a few years yet - but I fly a lot of multi-state cross country trips and there will be areas where it will be very useful even now, and expanding rapidly. I'm fortunate enough to have a mostly glass panel in my plane so it's relatively easy and cheap for me - I understand steam gauge planes will have a harder time with it but I can't help that.

The fourth amendment argument pretty much went out the window when transponders became standard equipment. Flight is a privilege, not a right. If you REALLY don't want anyone knowing what you are doing, don't leave the house.
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