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11-07-2010, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 434
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After reviewing my post, my description was not accurate, I was referring to the class B corridors and altitude references to those drawn out areas; flying below those lower altitudes to transition that area and not technically getting into the B airspace. So when I was referring to those as vfr corridors I was incorrect. My question then is when they say "remain clear of class Bravo", can I fly under or over the posted altitudes of Bravo without a clearance "through" the airspace?
Dave
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11-08-2010, 01:01 AM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvdave
After reviewing my post, my description was not accurate, I was referring to the class B corridors and altitude references to those drawn out areas; flying below those lower altitudes to transition that area and not technically getting into the B airspace. So when I was referring to those as vfr corridors I was incorrect. My question then is when they say "remain clear of class Bravo", can I fly under or over the posted altitudes of Bravo without a clearance "through" the airspace?
Dave
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Yes. If you under it or over it, you are clear of it.
Under or over a Bravo shelf you would be in Class E...or if down lower than 700/1200' AGL then in Glass G. Assuming you are not in the area of a Class D underlying airport of course.
(This happens sometimes when I ask for a transition direct across IAH to get to DWH from the Southeast side of Houston. If I get "remain clear" then I just fly through the VFR corridor between IAH and HOU, outside of the Bravo. But, since I'm on flight following they will often clear me "just" inside the Bravo right at the floor altitude...I suppose it keeps me out of the way of the VFR traffic they are not talking to below me, and the primary airport traffic they are busy with above me. Always seem pretty friendly around here though.  )
__________________
-Rick Greer, VAF #2492
Last edited by DCat22 : 11-08-2010 at 01:05 AM.
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11-08-2010, 05:40 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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My question is what is the best way to ensure that the controllers have my flight plan "In the System" when I call up for Flight Following on a long CC?
It seems that just activating a VFR flight plan with FSS does not guarantee it will be in there.
So what is the best way?
I have heard that you can file an IFR one with "For VFR Flight Following Only" in the comments and that works???
Or just file an IFR one and never ask for an IFR clearance?
Or file an VFR one and hope for the best?
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11-08-2010, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,747
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FEHDXL...When I see that some pilot has file direct, I often am annoyed that the pilot was too lazy to file anything in between. (and some controllers won't even fix the route until the pilot calls, thus delaying his clearance as a sort of payback) If you file a few points in between I feel that at least the pilot tried even if the route is flawed. I don't file IFR from a pilot's perspective but I have heard that DUATS and such will show you the prefered route. If DUATS does not list your route for you airport, you can cheat and choose a larger airport in the vicinity of your destination and that will give you some pretty accurate guidance.
DBUDS.....advisories, following, VFR flight following.....all the same, doesn't matter.
As far as going direct somewhere I am not sure if you mean IFR or VFR...I suppose it doesn't really matter to the controller. He is RADAR monitoring your course and should you stray he will catch it....but if he doesn't and you tangle up with another aircraft then you could get into some trouble (while IFR)....just as if you strayed off your IFR clearance.
Brantel....that is an interesting question. One that I have asked myself and other people several times. I am not a flight service expert so I am unsure with how to get my VFR plan in the ATC system. I do know this though...
Many pilots are confused about this process. When you file a VFR plan with flight service and call and activate it....that really has nothing to do with the ATC system. It is merely an insurance policy that somebody will come looking for you in the event you don't "close" the plan upon arrival to your destination.
If you file an IFR clearance, pick it up, get airborne and then cancel IFR and continue VFR....your chances of being in the system are EXTREMELY good. Filing VFR as stated above does little to help you with the ATC system.
You could call your local clearance delivery controller and ask them to enter you in the system. But you will have to ask for this specifically, workload permitting, they may accomadate.
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11-11-2010, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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I understand that VFR flight plans almost never make it to the ATC "system/computer" but do all IFR flight plans get loaded in?
Is it possible to file an IFR flight plan and never request an IFR clearance but use that data for calling up and requesting VFR flight following? Will the IFR plan be in there system?
I would like to avoid obtaining an IFR clearance sometimes because I may not be IFR current or the airplane I am in may not be IFR equipped.
I just hate trying to give a busy controller/center my complex VFR routing (around special airspace etc.) on the radio while requesting VFR FF, if there is a way I can be sure that there system has my plan in there, I would love to find it and use it sometimes.
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11-11-2010, 09:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Destin
Posts: 1,543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
I understand that VFR flight plans almost never make it to the ATC "system/computer" but do all IFR flight plans get loaded in?
Is it possible to file an IFR flight plan and never request an IFR clearance but use that data for calling up and requesting VFR flight following? Will the IFR plan be in there system?
I would like to avoid obtaining an IFR clearance sometimes because I may not be IFR current or the airplane I am in may not be IFR equipped.
I just hate trying to give a busy controller/center my complex VFR routing (around special airspace etc.) on the radio while requesting VFR FF, if there is a way I can be sure that there system has my plan in there, I would love to find it and use it sometimes.
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you can call and setup a profile with lockheed, then you give them your cert # and tail # and they have everything on file, they just confirm your fuel and souls on board, and you're set
but no IFR plans can't be used for VFR plans, unless the controller is nice and writes all the details down and ports it for you, but that's, well, rare around here
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11-11-2010, 11:20 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Does the controller...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
....
I just hate trying to give a busy controller/center my complex VFR routing (around special airspace etc.) on the radio while requesting VFR FF, if there is a way I can be sure that there system has my plan in there, I would love to find it and use it sometimes.
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...really care what your complex VFR route is?
I just fly my route under FF, and if a controller sees you do something he doesn't like, or is concerned about, he will let you know....
Of course, if they elect to give you vectors, especially around class B airspace, I follow them.
This happened last summer just North of Dallas while I was decending from 11,500 and weaving around towering cumulus clouds going into Sherman, TX.
The controller was concerned because one of my turns pointed me at his class B airspace - a quick reply saying I was turning to "remain VFR" took care of his concerns.
Again, does the controller care where you go as long as your are in legal airspace under VFR?
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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11-11-2010, 01:23 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Lafayette, IN
Posts: 3
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Controller radios
I'm a long time lurker (a Velocity guy), but this is a great forum. Created an account just so I could ask the controller a question.
I was flying in to FWA a few months back. Picked up the controller and much local traffic loud and clear a good ways out. On my call to the controller, no response. Called a few more times, no response. Now I'm getting pretty close to the Class B so begin decent (get under the first ring) and continue to call. I get a "last plane calling, unintelligible" or something along those lines. Call a few more times and either no response or "unintelligible". As I approach the inner ring, I decide to do a radio check and give a call out to one of the commercial flights. He says I'm "loud and clear" and tells me he's heard me call several times. I get a few other unsolicited call outs "load and clear". As the 430W says I'm about to enter class B, I turn due North and give them one more call.
The controller answers this time and he's NOT HAPPY, "What, you going to enter our airspace without calling, I've been watching you all the way in." I decided the radio wasn't the place to discuss, asked for permission and in I came. Landed and all was fine the rest of the way in.
So, I could hear him. I have 2 radios and 2 antennas. Tried both multiple times. Other traffic can hear me. FWA couldn't hear me for squat. I've had this problem with FWA on multiple occasions, but almost nowhere else.
So, two questions:
1) How would you, as a controller, have wanted me to handle this. I stayed clear of Class B since we weren't talking. Should I have gone high and circled on top trying to get through. Should I have circled outside the upper ring, what?
2) Do some facilities have radio problems? I've had a problem with only two places - Mansfield (MFD) and Fort Wayne (FWA). I've flown this plane throughout the midwest for the last 7 years. I do get complaints on occasion of hard to hear, but nowhere except FWA and MFD have I had consistent problems.
Thanks,
Jeff
Last edited by iflyforfun : 11-11-2010 at 01:24 PM.
Reason: email notirication
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11-11-2010, 01:32 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,198
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antenna placement
Jeff, Welcome to VAF!
Is it possible that the traffic that could hear you was above and the FWA antenna was of course below? Where is the antenna in your Velocity? (nice plane, btw)
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11-11-2010, 02:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jackson, MS
Posts: 1,262
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Mark the tape
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8ch
Jeff, Welcome to VAF!
Is it possible that the traffic that could hear you was above and the FWA antenna was of course below? Where is the antenna in your Velocity? (nice plane, btw)
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Should Jeff have asked the controllor to mark the tape?
__________________
Webb Willmott
Jackson, MS
N32WW
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