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10-05-2010, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Cost of Flying
I topped off the tanks this morning and once again the bill was over a $100. But that was not too bad, it had been over 2 weeks since the last fuel purchase. During that time, the Hobbs logged 5.7 hours and the burn was 27.7 gallons.
Getting a handle on the cost of flying is becoming somewhat of an obsession. One learns after retirement money does not grow on trees and a fixed income becomes less and less valuable. Being a senior has no tax benefits and insurance of all types costs more.
To control flight costs, one thing that works is to pull the throttle and mixture back as soon as possible after take off. The average burn for those 5.7 hours was 4.85 gph. Even at that, it comes in at $19.48 an hour just for the fuel. When I factor in the cost of a weekly lunch with some friends, it is about $28. Well, at least it isn't a hundred bucks like it could be by flying a greater distance but it all adds up.
The total cost of flight for 2009 for me was $6,786.73. That included everything from EAA dues to insurance to Weathermeister. And that is after tax dollars as every nickel one pulls out of a retirement plan is taxable.
So what's the point, you might ask? Well, it's about flying and paying for it and trying to keep costs under control. I'd like to fly forever, but sometimes wonder if the cost is sustainable. Friends ask, what would you do without an airplane? I don't know - but do think about it. Local zoo officials look for old geezers to run the kids train as conductor or engineer, or one could volunteer to be a tour guide at the AB brewery and perhaps get a free beer at the end of the day. I don't know.
How many of you think about life without an airplane and is the cost under control at this point?
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
Last edited by David-aviator : 10-05-2010 at 08:23 PM.
Reason: hit the return key by accident before writing anything.
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10-05-2010, 08:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 456
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Me Too
David,
I am not retired yet. In fact I have over 9,500 days before any such day. But this is something I think about a lot.
Being born in the US, I moved to Hong Kong for work, and moved back to fly. But now I feel the increasing pressure to move back over to Asia due to my job. You cannot have a plane there unless you are extremely wealthy. We are lucky to have our aviation forefathers to carve out such a great ability to fly. Hope it does not get taken away. So this is something I think about every day.
So the cost of flying is very reasonable in the US, even in my home town of San Francisco, compared to Europe or Asia. And in many countries this is not even an option.
And for the past few years, having an airplane was a better investment than the stock market or real estate.
I too hope I can fly forever.
__________________
Michael Delpier
RV6A -O-320, fixed pitch, GRT Sport, 496
RV-10 - working on finish kit
Houston
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10-05-2010, 08:58 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
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If the money isn't there or the value has gone you have to think about it
If the money isn't there or the value has gone you have to think about it. I am also retired but the margin for me is still sufficient to carry on. From what I know of your background, USAF F-86 pilot, airline pilot and heaven knows what else, the thrill of burger bouncing in an RV could be falling short in view of the tremendous cost and sacrifices that it demands. I continue to modify my RV-6A and try to make it faster then fly in SARL cross country air races trying to win out over other RVs with 360 cubic inch engines. I will be 74 in a few weeks and since July of 2009 our attention has been focused on some medical problems that almost killed my wife. The oncologist says that he thinks her ability to breath will be back to normal by December of this year (2010). I am happy that she is doing as well as she is and I will be satisfied with whatever level of recovery we can achieve. In spite of it all, I keep the goal of speed and winning in my mind, to move forward with when and if the opportunity presents itself. In my case aiming high to achieve more with my RV-6A is very important to continue flying. If I didn't have that and the opportunity to travel to new and exciting places with my wife I would stop in pretty short order. Life for us older folks is too short to keep doing something that we really can't afford when there is no special sense of satisfaction or pleasure from it. I am a racer and I will continue till I can't do it anymore physically. I don't think this would interest you but maybe it would. Checkout www.sportairrace.org.
Bob Axsom
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10-06-2010, 05:22 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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You're lucky, David...
...because even if I reduce power to 10 GPH, my -10 still costs over $45/hour to fly...way more than my -6 did. My usual burn is 14.5 GPH because I don't run LOP = $65.25  The -12 keeps looking better and better.
Adding insurance and miscellaneous expenses, it comes to near $100/hour to run my -10.
Bear in mind that I've been figuring hourly expenses for over 35 years, running my ag business, so I can amortize all the costs into an hourly figure.
No, I can't see me NOT owning an airplane.
We cut other expenses....no phone, just cells, no new cars but good, used ones, grill often and seldom eat out, etc.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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10-06-2010, 06:45 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mesquite, TX
Posts: 936
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Two words....
MO GAS.  Thats my plan to keep costs down!
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10-06-2010, 06:50 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Novi, MI & Venice, FL
Posts: 66
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I hope I've planned ahead enough.....
I don't own an RV .... yet. The decision now is a 9 or a 12. I think the medical is a more worrysome thing than the hourly cost. It can bite you at any time once you're up in age as I am. And if it does, I hope I've befriended enough people over the years that my ability to get up in the air will continue.
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10-06-2010, 07:01 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Destin
Posts: 1,543
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get busy livin, or get busy dyin
i vote to stay in the air
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10-06-2010, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 438
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I do understand the costs, and even when not facing retirement you have to keep it under control.
I have been a prosecutor, and a public defender. Lawyer yes, rich no, most new teachers start out at a higher income....better politics for them. I am not complaining, I have thoroughly enjoyed serving the system and the public.
I could not have kept flying at all were it not for the RV-7. It is truly economical, especially when AD's, SB's, and Annual come around. Plus, I can pull back the prop and throttle and cruise around all day sight seeing for what seems like fuel vapor.
But, a major change and financial risk brings it all in perspective. I am going to be starting a business...my own practice...and I will have to give up the RV for a while.
I hope to build another one, and when I do it will either be a 7 or a 10.
I can honestly say that the RV-7 has cost me slightly less per hour than my Citabria did to own/fly. And I have done a lot more Cross Country in the RV. They really are incredible machines.
__________________
John C Conard
J.D.
Citabria 7KCAB (Former)
RV-7 Flying
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10-06-2010, 07:11 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: TX & CO
Posts: 465
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I'm sure I'll be using mogas when I get to the engine decisions. Saving an extra $1.20 or so per gallon when the fuel burn is around 7-9 gph is enough incentive to me, and I can live without that extra 4 mph speed by having the higher compression pistons and burning 100LL.
OPEC literally does have us over a barrel. They got enough control and power over the price to keep it where they want it, and I don?t think that will change in my lifetime.
A few things that might help ease our costs concerns though, is that you can take any reasonably built Van?s aircraft, which is most of them, invest your $50-$100,000 or more into it; fly it for ten years, put 1,000 hours on it, and you?ll probably still get all your initial investment back on it.
Now take any nice luxurious car or pick-up of your choice. Invest $35-$50,000 in it. Drive it for ten years, add 150,000 miles on it, and what do you think you?ll get on it? I?m guessing maybe 10% of that value if you are lucky and you kept it up. How many want a vehicle with 150,000 miles on it? It would take most of us about 800 hours to put that many miles on their planes, and unlike the 150,000 mile car that almost nobody would want, 800 hours on a plane is nothing at all, and everybody would still want it.
One way we can justify some of fuel burn costs is that if we take a long trip that we were going to take anyway, but instead of going by car, choose to go by plane, is to pull back on the throttle slightly, and on most of our two-seaters, we?ll be getting the same gas mileage as quite a bit of the cars on the road today, only difference being, we?ll be getting there a lot quicker at close to 200 mph and in a straight line too.
For some of you that have the high hangar costs, if you?re retired, and a job isn?t holding you down to that particular location, it?s time to think about a place that is more pilot and plane friendly, and where the costs are only $100-$200.00 a month for hangars, not some of the $500.00 + I?ve heard some say they are paying. And where land is plentiful and cheap, one can always consider their own grass strip and hangar.
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10-06-2010, 07:16 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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John, you won't get 200 mph with the throttle back.
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