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08-20-2010, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: va.
Posts: 523
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Stan,
I just pulled the article out of my -3 file. It's in Oct,1972 Sport Aviation and I don't have a way to post it on here. There is a picture of the device, the caption says ".....aileron drooping device. the lever at the base of the stick can be thrown over to the right to.... shorten the aileron push rods, thus drooping both. Lower stall speed is the advantage gained..." This was Van's first -3, N17RV , 0-290G, 695#ew. Article says it is flown from a 670' strip!!!
Bill
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08-20-2010, 12:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMaine
Re the aerobatic stuff. Has anyone put together an RV-3/4 guide to airspeed and G ranges for all the basic manuvers? Or can someone post from their own experience? I have some Citabria time, but its a different critter.
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Verne, has your -3A had both CN-1 and CN-2 wing mods done? The "A" designation doesn't clarify this. If not, then it should be operated per the utility load limit of 4.4G. This will affect how you fly the airplane, especially doing acro. That being said, there's a tendency for folks new to acro or acro in new airplanes to be a bit concerned about entry speeds and g-loads for various maneuvers. The fact is that most basic maneuvers can be done across a wide range of speeds and g-loads.
You could do loops anywhere from 100 mph to Vne. At Vne, you might be able to do a loop with as little as a 2G pull. Or you could pull to the limit. The lower the airspeed, the more critical technique becomes. You could do ballistic (zero G) rolls slower than the normal 1G stall speed...or you could do a roll at Vne.
If we're talking competion quality maneuvers, then airspeed becomes more critical, since you need enough energy to make your looping segments round, perform maneuvers on uplines without falling out, etc. But if you're just doing positive G whifferdill stuff, then it's pretty much whatever speed/load that can get the job done. A loop that you fall through from low speed/low G is still a loop.
There's no magic or specific techniques required for doing acro in RV's. I would definitely not encourage self-taught acro, but if you've had sufficient acro/spin training, then you can jump right into the RV and start playing around with different techniques. You'll learn pretty quick what your style is and what's needed. Aerobatics is not about by-the-book numbers, it's about developing a feel for your airplane and learning its performance limits and how to feel though the controls where those limits are.
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08-21-2010, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,891
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Tight Squeeze for a Three..
I shared my hangar with a nice 0-320 very lightweight early model three for several years. We would trade off when he wanted to give a ride in my RV4. I greatly enjoyed the three and have always enjoyed a single seater having spent a large part of my adult life in one (F16). RV3 acro was very close to the four but much lighter in pitch and could easily go over the top with a 120 mph entry. I used 150 for both aircraft for loops and cuban eights, 180 for vertical rolls. As Eric stated, get some instruction if you have never tried it.
I traveled to my friend Arvil's 900' strip on several occasions and my 1800' strip regularly. The -3 could easily fly final at 62 knots with a healthy rate of descent and a blast of power just before touchdown to avoid a hard landing. I use 1000' for my minimum runway length no wind but landed and stopped both airplanes on grass in 500' many times, lots of practice..
However, the Rocket is a whole nuther animal...
Smokey
HR2
Last edited by smokyray : 08-21-2010 at 06:57 PM.
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08-21-2010, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV3 Pilot
I've got more than a couple of thousand landings in an RV3
(no two alike :-). I try to fly fairly tight patterns so 100 abeam the numbers then 1 notch of flaps, slow to 80 on base, 2nd notch of flaps on turn to final and 60 across the numbers. As mentioned above I can do 55 across the numbers but it does feel like I'm dragging it in and visability over the nose is not the best. I rarely practice short field landings but I would consider a 800 foot runway minimum length for me.
Tom
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Exactly the same numbers as I use for my six A............ solo! Except landings are consistent.
Last edited by gasman : 08-21-2010 at 10:52 PM.
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08-22-2010, 03:51 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandifer
Verne, has your -3A had both CN-1 and CN-2 wing mods done? The "A" designation doesn't clarify ...............
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No matter how good you are....... heed this advice.
No CN-1 & CN-2 = no aerobatics.
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08-23-2010, 04:41 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 182
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Aileron dropping device
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilddog
I just pulled the article out of my -3 file. It's in Oct,1972 Sport Aviation and I don't have a way to post it on here.
Bill
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Here it is: http://rv8.linta.de/files/vaf/N17RV.pdf
Thanks Bill for scanning it!
__________________
Hendrik
Club-Libelle: flying
RV-8: on hold (new job  , new home  , no workshop (yet)  )
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08-23-2010, 09:14 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 664
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asav8tor
No matter how good you are....... heed this advice.
No CN-1 & CN-2 = no aerobatics.
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Yes, "no aerobatics" is the stance taken by Vans Aircraft. This subject has been whipped to death many times, but I'll say that safe aerobatics in any airplane depends on the pilot, not the airplane. There is nothing magical about the 6G stress rating. Some pilots may not be safe doing aerobatics in an aircraft with an operational 9G limit.
An aircraft stressed for 6G simply provides more margin for error than an aircraft with an operational 4.4G limit (unmodded RV-3). Anyone with the competence required (this is the key) can do basic "whifferdill" acro all day long at 3-3.5G without even paying much attention. I'm not making a general recommendation for doing this, but again stating that the pilot is the critical factor, which is why I don't like across-the-board edicts and admonishments. Vans Aircraft has their reasons for this position, and given their legal responsibilities, should do no differently.
Regardless of the strength and capabilities of any particular aircarft, pilots will still push them to their operating limits, whether it's a 4.4G RV-3, a 6G Pitts, or a 10G Edge 540. To me, it's all a continuum, and other than legality, 6G's is arbitrary and has no magic when it comes to safety. You must use good judgment and fly any airplane within its operating limitations whether you're doing aerobatics or not. Plus, the term "aerobatics" is so vague that it could pretty much be anything...and it pretty much is according to the FAA if you look up their definition. So make sure you have the training and judgment to fly any maneuver safely in the aircraft you're in, whether it's a steep turn, a 1G roll, a 3G loop, or high-speed Sean Tucker-like gyroscopics.
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08-23-2010, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Memphis
Posts: 159
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Aero in RV-3
From Randy's POH: (remember that his aircraft is a -3B!)
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/N2...N223RL-POH.doc
Aerobatic Weight & CG Limitation
Aerobatic maneuvers generating more than 4.4 Gs must be flown with gross weight not exceeding 1050 lbs. (plus fuel, total weight not to exceed aircraft gross weight of 1,300 lbs) and C.G. not aft of 64.58?.
Maneuver
Entry speed IAS
Aileron roll, Barrel roll
130 ? 200 mph
Wingover, Chandelle
140 ? 200 mph
Loops, Horizontal eights
160 ? 200 mph
Immelman
160 ? 200 mph
Split-S
90 ? 110 mph
Best to not attempt aero without training!
Barney, in Memphis
RV-3 & 4 flying
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08-24-2010, 09:57 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Caldwell ID
Posts: 253
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aileron drooping- Stol mod (+ taper pins)
Bill,
Thanks for the article. I'm trying not to choke on my previous skepticism  The picture scanned well enough, I think I can visualize the likely internals. The actuator probably contains a cam like device. Reminds me of the hardware used to draw table leaves together. Once again, looks like a simple and elegant solution brought to us by Van
I wonder if this unit showed up in some of the early plans? Regardless, without to much trouble, this could be reverse engineered, in that 18 degrees of droop is equal to a certain distance, the device would need to do that for both the left and right side.
Also noticed in the photo- the splice plates are holding the elusive taper pins, not close tolerance bolts. One can see the taper pins sticking out forward, farther than a bolt head would. As an owner of a taper pin equipped aircraft, it is nice to have visual confirmation that this was used by Van and not solely a variation added by a few builders.
Best regards
__________________
Stan
1990 RV-3 (now apart, upgrades in the works)
1959 C172 O-360
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09-12-2010, 08:22 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 5
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N903NB
I just purchased an RV3B. I have quite a few hours in Aeroncas and Stinson 108's. Any advice for the first few flights in the RV? How about landing it? Easy or more difficult than my Stinsons ?
Thanks,
Al
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