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  #1  
Old 08-10-2010, 10:58 AM
Raiz Raiz is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 83
Post Suspension travel is the key to RV-7A nose gear collapse

I know the nose gear thing has been done to death already but here is a new angle on it, which just might save your nose gear. The key takeaway is: Don?t brake on bumpy strips (if you can avoid it). Read on to understand how I came to that view.

In deciding whether to build a TW or tri-gear RV-7, the key issue for me was whether the nose gear would be able to cope with grass strips. I read everything I could find but it left me feeling that I?d be gambling with $50k and 4 years work if I operated a 7A out of a roughish strip. I became intrigued and set about analysing the gear design. What emerged is that the nose gear has relatively little vertical travel ? just 4? (1?? for the leg and 2?? for the tire).

There are two common situations that require a lot of suspension travel: Landing and bumpy ground. I?m going to assume that nobody expects to land on the nose wheel on bumpy ground and get away with it, which means we can treat nose wheel landings and bumps separately.

Van?s deals with the landing case by advising pilots against using the nose gear as a landing gear. That?s good advice, because the RV-7A has much less suspension travel than would be needed to meet the FAR 23 three point landing requirement for certificated airplanes. Put simply, it?s not designed for nose wheel landings.

Van?s suggests the 7 instead of the 7A for rough strips but how big do the bumps have to be before it counts as a rough strip? A way to think of it is that you have a maximum of 4? of suspension travel and part of that is taken by the factors that pre-load the gear (static weight, braking, residual compression from any earlier bumps and forward stick positions). Any remaining suspension travel must be greater than the bump height, if the leg is to survive. Tire pressure also plays a role, because it determines (in part) how much of the travel is taken up by the pre-load.

The graph below shows the compression in the gear, as a function of braking and tire pressure. This is for worst case loading conditions of 1800 lb all up weight, 375 lb static nose load and a 45? CG height. The travel available to absorb bumps is simply the 4? total minus the value from the graph.



The gear compression with no braking is around 0.5?, leaving scope for bumps of up to 3" or so high, before the leg fails. However, the capacity to deal with bumps decreases under braking, dropping to just 1? under maximum braking (defined as when the rear wheels lock-up). The blue (25 psi) line flattens at the top, because the tire bottoms on the rim.

Pulling the stick back will reduce the load on the nose provided there is enough airspeed. However, that still leaves braking at low speed, where the elevator authority is low. Conversely, forward stick positions will increase the nose gear compression but I would argue that that represents poor piloting technique. The other source of pre-load is unrelieved compression from a previous bump, or from dropping down on to lower ground, but that?s going to have to be the subject of a future post.

In the meantime, avoiding braking on bumpy strips could be a good plan, especially at low speed.

Just getting my flame suit now?

Raiz
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  #2  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:13 AM
IowaRV9Dreamer's Avatar
IowaRV9Dreamer IowaRV9Dreamer is offline
 
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Location: Marion IA
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Default gear vertical travel?

Hi Raiz - interesting work, thanks for posting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiz View Post
I became intrigued and set about analysing the gear design. What emerged is that the nose gear has relatively little vertical travel ? just 4? (1?? for the leg and 2?? for the tire).
Can you share your analysis on where these two numbers came from?

I think you are on to something here... In the sprit of experimental aviation I hope we can keep this going forward without too much flaming!
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Building RV-9A N149DG (slider, IO-320, IFR)
Restored and Flying Beech Super III N3698Q
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There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings." Wilbur Wright, 1905
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:19 AM
terrye terrye is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Default Suspension travel is the key to RV-7A nose gear collapse.

Well, no flames from me! In fact, I commend you on your analysis. But I would like a bit more explanation of a couple of your points

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiz View Post
... the nose gear has relatively little vertical travel ? just 4? (1?? for the leg and 2?? for the tire).
How did you determine the leg travel of 1-3/4" (the tire travel is obvious)? Is this the travel at which the propeller strikes the ground?


Quote:
The gear compression with no braking is around 0.5?, leaving scope for bumps of up to 3" or so high, before the leg fails.
What is your criteria of "...leg fails"? Is it the bending stress in the leg at the attachment socket in the engine mount? Does the bending stress exceed the yield stress of the spring steel leg in this condition?

Last edited by Rosie : 08-10-2010 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:22 AM
Danny7 Danny7 is offline
 
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Location: central oregon
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sounds good, i'd be interested to see where you got the number for only an inch & 3/4 for the leg.

also i think the pilot technique isn't given enough recognition, at some point in low speed travel there will be an increasing amount of weight you can take off the nose gear with proper back pressure.
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  #5  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:40 AM
Raiz Raiz is offline
 
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Q: Where the 1 3/4" leg deflection number came from?
A: It's the amount of vertical deflection (measured at the axle) required to reach the yield stress in the leg. I assumed a yield stress of 168 ksi.
Raiz
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  #6  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:43 AM
Raiz Raiz is offline
 
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Location: Cambridge, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaRV9Dreamer View Post
Hi Raiz - interesting work, thanks for posting.


Can you share your analysis on where these two numbers came from?

I think you are on to something here... In the sprit of experimental aviation I hope we can keep this going forward without too much flaming!
The maximum tire deflection is just when it bottoms on the rim. The leg deflection is determined by the yield stress in the leg, as per my other reply.

Keep the questions coming !

Raiz
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  #7  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:47 AM
Raiz Raiz is offline
 
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Location: Cambridge, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny7 View Post
sounds good, i'd be interested to see where you got the number for only an inch & 3/4 for the leg.

also i think the pilot technique isn't given enough recognition, at some point in low speed travel there will be an increasing amount of weight you can take off the nose gear with proper back pressure.
Danny 7, I think you are right with pilot technique and back pressure but the problem is that there is always a speed below which a rearwards stick position has negligable effect and, if you hit a big enough bump at that point, the leg will buckle.

Raiz
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  #8  
Old 08-10-2010, 11:52 AM
GregM GregM is offline
 
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Interesting. I've often been keen to learn where exactly the CG was on the aircrafts that have had nose failure. Braking could further exasperate the situation in certain areas of CG.
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  #9  
Old 08-10-2010, 12:11 PM
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IowaRV9Dreamer IowaRV9Dreamer is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiz View Post
there is always a speed below which a rearwards stick position has negligable effect and, if you hit a big enough bump at that point, the leg will buckle.
This would explain the low speed nose gear leg failures that have happened.

Raiz, how sensitive is your analysis to CG position? Any chance of posting results for forward, middle, and aft CG locations?
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Dave Gribble VAF #232
Building RV-9A N149DG (slider, IO-320, IFR)
Restored and Flying Beech Super III N3698Q
Marion IA

Struggling with fiberglass

There is no sport equal to that which aviators enjoy while being carried through the air on great white wings." Wilbur Wright, 1905
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2010, 12:19 PM
Raiz Raiz is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregM View Post
Interesting. I've often been keen to learn where exactly the CG was on the aircrafts that have had nose failure. Braking could further exasperate the situation in certain areas of CG.
Hi GregM,

You got me thinking, so I re-ran the analysis with a different AUW and static nose load (1600 lb and 250 lb respectively). This moves the CG back from 82.6" to 85.4". The graph in my first post changes to this:



If you compare the two graphs, you can see that these changes increased the bump capacity from 1 to 2 inches under heavy braking. Interesting !

Raiz
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