Does this sound like its worth it?

danielhv · #1 06-29-2010, 06:49 AM

Quick story: Friend of mine has a -6A, and has been building a -7A for the last 5 years. He just wants to sell the -7A but wants to finish it first. He doesn't have time to finish it (or says he doesn't) and wants to pay me to finish. Here is what he is offering:

Emp, Wings, Fuse, Panel, Wiring, & Engine are all done.

The only things he wants me to do are:

Canopy (Slider)
Baffling
Cowl
Prop (Constant Speed) & Spinner
Fairings & Fiberglass (tips also)

HE is estimating that it can easily be done in 350 hours. He has offered me $10,000 to finish it.

First, does 350 hours sound do-able? This would be my first time tackling all of the above, so I'd be a little slower, but it would also help me when it comes time to do mine.

Second, does $10k sound reasonable?

Third, $10k is all he wants to pay. So if I have to buy any special tools, it comes out of that $10k (with the exception of parts). His logic is that I'll need those same tools anyways when my build gets to that point.

He also said he would let me fly it while it is for sale. He would be keeping it in my hangar anyways.

So, should I consider doing this? Thoughts?

Vlad · #2 06-29-2010, 07:10 AM

It's more than those hours and money. I would not do it.
Just be friends...

madhun · #3 06-29-2010, 07:16 AM

Doesn't sound like a very good deal to me?

cattflight · #4 06-29-2010, 07:19 AM

Not sure if you're looking to build the same model, but maybe you could buy his in the unfinished state, finish it at your own pace, and fly it.
Putting a fixed fee model together for something you've never done before sounds like a bad idea to me (as another "never done it before guy"). $10k is roughly $29/hr at 350 estimated hours. If it takes you twice as long because you're a first-timer working slow - or you make a mistake - are you okay with working for half that and eating the cost of the replacement parts? A new cowling isn't cheap. And what if he's unsatisfied with your finished product? How will you work that out?

Another option would be to look at his total time investment so far, establish a ratio of the remaining hours against that, finish the airplane for him for free, deduct the cost of the parts (kit, engine, avionics, interior, prop, etc.) and divide the proceeds from the sale accordingly. (though I bet you'd come out better taking the $10k)

Or maybe he should put it up for sale now and I'll buy it

Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielhv

Quick story: Friend of mine has a -6A, and has been building a -7A for the last 5 years. He just wants to sell the -7A but wants to finish it first. He doesn't have time to finish it (or says he doesn't) and wants to pay me to finish. Here is what he is offering:

Emp, Wings, Fuse, Panel, Wiring, & Engine are all done.

The only things he wants me to do are:

Canopy (Slider)
Baffling
Cowl
Prop (Constant Speed) & Spinner
Fairings & Fiberglass (tips also)

HE is estimating that it can easily be done in 350 hours. He has offered me $10,000 to finish it.

First, does 350 hours sound do-able? This would be my first time tackling all of the above, so I'd be a little slower, but it would also help me when it comes time to do mine.

Second, does $10k sound reasonable?

Third, $10k is all he wants to pay. So if I have to buy any special tools, it comes out of that $10k (with the exception of parts). His logic is that I'll need those same tools anyways when my build gets to that point.

He also said he would let me fly it while it is for sale. He would be keeping it in my hangar anyways.

So, should I consider doing this? Thoughts?

danielhv · #5 06-29-2010, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cattflight

Not sure if you're looking to build the same model, but maybe you could buy his in the unfinished state, finish it at your own pace, and fly it.
Putting a fixed fee model together for something you've never done before sounds like a bad idea to me (as another "never done it before guy"). $10k is roughly $29/hr at 350 estimated hours. If it takes you twice as long because you're a first-timer working slow - or you make a mistake - are you okay with working for half that and eating the cost of the replacement parts? A new cowling isn't cheap. And what if he's unsatisfied with your finished product? How will you work that out?

Another option would be to look at his total time investment so far, establish a ratio of the remaining hours against that, finish the airplane for him for free, deduct the cost of the parts (kit, engine, avionics, interior, prop, etc.) and divide the proceeds from the sale accordingly. (though I bet you'd come out better taking the $10k)

Or maybe he should put it up for sale now and I'll buy it
Good luck.

I want my own panel, engine, T/U canopy, tailwheel, etc. Plus I enjoy building.

If you really are interested in buying pm me, he doesn't think he will get his money back out of it as an unfinished kit, which is why he is wanting to finish it. It wouldn't be to the point I described in the scenario above until the end of this year. Right now, the fuse and tail is done. Wings, are ready for riveting. Panel is done. Engine is ready. comes with finish kit, prop, gov, etc. Last I remember he had a little over $50k in it.

Anyways, it was just a though, but it looks like it WOULD be best for me to pass on it. Glad I have you guys to ask these questions to!

WingsOnWheels · #6 06-29-2010, 08:30 AM

I would pass, that kind of deal is a quick way to kill a friendship if something goes wrong.

Bavafa · #7 06-29-2010, 09:51 AM

With the exception of friendship issue, I would do it in a heartbeat.

In terms of work, I think it is very reasonable and possibly generous in terms of $$$
The only risky part is the canopy which has the risk of craking and that is high $$$ part to replace but I would still do it.

RickWoodall · #8 06-29-2010, 10:08 AM

If the guy is serious, he should do a little digging. There are many experienced builders who are retired and repeat offenders. I would think to a repeat builder with tools and time, that is a fairly reasonable offer cash wise. I know there are builders out there who love having a job to do and help others kind of like hired guns. Their quality is great, often they have great shops and all skills.
Have your friend find one of those, get it done and pay the bill. No issues with quality or worries about your friendship being strained..and you get back to working on your bird now.

Opinion only, do what you want to do.

flytoboat · #9 06-29-2010, 10:20 AM

Does anyone else see an issue here? If he pays to have it completed will it still be considered an Amateur Built?

John Clark · #10 06-29-2010, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flytoboat

Does anyone else see an issue here? If he pays to have it completed will it still be considered an Amateur Built?

Clearly the plan is to tell the FAA "the big lie" when it comes time for the inspection. My problem with this is that it reflects on all of us and can lead to changes in the regulations and some nasty liability issues. I know that it goes on all the time but blabbing the plan on a public forum is foolhardy. A little restraint would be prudent.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAA FAAST Team Member
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA