VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 04-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Jamie's Avatar
Jamie Jamie is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,295
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan
Can't believe nobody suggested this yet...but here's something to try... Go get a ride!!! Sometimes that's all it takes to light a fire under an otherwise stalled builder.
Wow...how true that is.

Kahuna has given me more rides in his -6A (now sold) and his -8 than I can count. I'm going along to Sun-n-fun with him this year. I went last year with him in his -6A. He introduced me to RVs and has kept me motivated and on track. Flies over my house on occasion, laying smoke and wagging his wings at my wife and I (and keeping it mostly vertical...erhh...I mean level). Can't say enough nice things about the guy.

Everybody needs a Kahuna at their airport to keep them motivated. You just need to go to your local sporting goods store and purchase some of those rib protectors that boxers wear if you're building a trike.
__________________
"What kind of man would live where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all." - Charles A. Lindbergh
Jamie | RV-7A First Flight: 7/27/2007 (Sold)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-04-2006, 04:59 PM
Rosie's Avatar
Rosie Rosie is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I live in on the Rosamond Skypark (CA) and am married to Victoria (Tuppergal).
Posts: 982
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan
Can't believe nobody suggested this yet...but here's something to try... Go get a ride!!! Sometimes that's all it takes to light a fire under an otherwise stalled builder. I'm sure you've flown RVs before since you've been around them for so long. But if you haven't flown one recently, gotta fix that. Go up and poke a hole in the sky with somebody who'll let you do most of the flying. You never know what kind of wonders it'll work with your motivation.
And if the ride really toots your horn, I suggest selling the Glastar then you'll have much more time & money to build then fly your RV Rosie
__________________
Paul A. "Rosie" Rosales
Rosamond Skypark (L00), CA
RV-6A, 4200+ hours since 7/4/2000
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-04-2006, 07:30 PM
Hawkeye7A's Avatar
Hawkeye7A Hawkeye7A is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SE AZ
Posts: 286
Default Great point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan
Can't believe nobody suggested this yet...but here's something to try... Go get a ride!!! Sometimes that's all it takes to light a fire under an otherwise stalled builder. I'm sure you've flown RVs before since you've been around them for so long. But if you haven't flown one recently, gotta fix that. Go up and poke a hole in the sky with somebody who'll let you do most of the flying. You never know what kind of wonders it'll work with your motivation.
What an "Aha!" moment! I hadn't thought of that. 'Course I'm still building so I don't have unlimited access to an RV(like some people I know!) I do have a '59 C172 that I fly every weekend possible and that IS a great source of motivation. Especially when I'm planning a cross-country trip at a SCORCHING 95 knots TAS!
__________________
--Hawk Pierce
RV-7A Flying as of Sep 7, 2008
Phase One complete as of Nov 16, 2008
Finally painted!
600+ hours and lovin' every minute of it!
N728E
SE AZ

"I fly because it frees my mind from the tyranny of petty things."

--Antoine de Saint Exupery
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-05-2006, 09:50 PM
randylervold's Avatar
randylervold randylervold is offline
moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mill Creek, WA
Posts: 617
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flymustangs
I'm "working" on an RV-3 and have once again become disenchanted with the project. This is not my first attempt at an RV, I've worked on an RV-4 and an RV-8 in the past. It happened much quicker with the RV-3 and I think that is mostly because of the plans. Yes, many people have successfully completed these. Maybe their tolerance for frustration is higher than mine.
Ken (and other potential builders who might be lurking), here's the unvarnished truth about building airplanes as far as I'm concerned...

Simply put, building an airplane, any airplane, is not for everyone. And whether you are or not does NOT make you any lesser person, just different. (some might say the builders are the strange ones) Building an airplane is a long term project that I think requires tremendous self-discipline and dedication over an extended period of time -- years in fact. Anyone contemplating building an airplane should look at themselves objectively in this regard. Shorter term projects such as re-doing the interior on a certified plane, building r/c airplanes, or restoring a motorcycle might be a better fit for some folks due to the shorter time frame and clearer path.

I am now building my second RV and let me make a confession... while building my first plane, an RV-8 (slow build), I became discouraged and considered quitting several times. In fact even building my second plane now I ride the emotional roller coaster. I'll go for several months and be highly motivated and very focused and make significant progress. Then I'll get burned out and get discouraged and can barely force myself to go out there and do anything. I've learned that that's when it's smart to just take a break. Sometimes it's just overnight, sometimes it's a couple of days, and sometimes it means taking a month or two off. We are all different in this regard, you just need to figure out what's the right pattern for you and how long you can maintain your focus. Ken, your comment about "tolerance for frustration" is very apt, but you really made it hard on yourself by taking on an RV-3 without previous RV experience.

Having built an RV-8 and now an RV-3B (not complete yet) I can say unequivacolly that no one should attempt an RV-3 unless you've built an RV before. The only exception is if you have ready access to a previous RV builder who can guide you out of the woods when you run into the enevitable dead ends. Frankly the reason why is NOT the lack of prepunching or fewer manufactured parts, it's the lack of information. If you didn't know how an RV went together in a general way you'd simply be at a dead end LOTS of times. Yes, occasionally there are mistakes in the plans or manual, but they have all been easy to spot if you know "the path". What really makes it difficult is information that simply isn't there. The RV-3 drawings and manual just don't have as much info, for example there are no 3D (isometric?) views at all. This leaves you scratching your head trying to figure out how various subassemblies or parts go together. Quite frankly the biggest challenge is mental, and some nights I'm just not up to it so I either do some mindless task like deburring or dimpling, or just knock it off until my brain will engage again. Yes the RV-3 is more work physically with all the skin trimming and such but that's not the insurmountable part.

So Ken, you really made it hard on yourself by biting into an RV-3 as your first project, but consider the big picture also and what suits you as a person. For those considering building I've tried to make some real world comments on my experience building my first plane on my RV-8 site which can be found here. Taking an airplane construction project on requires changes to your lifestyle, no way around it. You'd be well advised to think it through carefully.

Don't get me wrong, building my RV-8 was probably the most satisfying accomplishment of my life. But if I couldn't have finished it then it might have turned into one of the most frustrating experiences of my life, and there were times that's what I thought was going to happen. I believe we each ought to set goals for ourselves that stretch us, but that are ultimately achievable, and we each need to be realistic about what those goals are.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought this dose of reality might help those considering diving in.
__________________
Randy Lervold
RV-12iS, empennage/tailcone complete, wings currently, fuse in box
RV-3B, first flight 2007 - sold
RV-8, first flight 2001 - sold
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-05-2006, 11:20 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

Randy,

Your "rant" so perfectly expressed my feelings towards my project over these years that it was like reading my own thoughts. It felt nice to be reminded that I'm not the only one who goes through these ups and downs. Thanks.
__________________
Steve Zicree
Fullerton, Ca. w/beautiful 2.5 year old son
RV-4 99% built and sold
Rag and tube project well under way

paid =VAF= dues through June 2013

Last edited by szicree : 04-05-2006 at 11:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:12 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Maybe You Need a Historical Record

After reading all of the preceeding stories and doing some thinking about your situation a thought entered my mind that perhaps you are getting lost in a sense of getting nowhere with your projects. Since you have worked on an RV-4, RV-8 and are working on an RV-3, you apparently have a recurring desire to have an RV. Since you went out and bought a GlaStar that you are now flying, and are the president of an EAA Chapter money nor the lack of ability to fly nor contact with others of similar interests appear to be factors in defeating your motivation. Here is my thought - building an airplane is a very long term project and if you don't have a detailed record of what you have done it would be very easy to develop a feeling that you are working and giving up a lot of pleasures in your limited life but you are not going anywhere with the thing that you are making all of these sacrifices for. Under these conditions discipline is difficult to maintain.

When I started my project I bought a 300 page bound "Record" book with a margin on the left side of each page. Every time I worked on the plane I made an entry in the record book. After every entry I made a line across the page isolating it from all following entries. Every entry complies with a format that contains essential data and a narative signed off by me. Every time I went to work on the project (even for a minute) the first requirement was to enter the date in the left margin and the start time in the writing field of the page. Then I was "clocked in" and free to work. At various times during the work session I would take photographs, note significant work items, questions, decisions and even current events like who just won the Super Bowl, etc. but Always I would close the entry at the end of the work session. Each completed entry would contain these essential data, the stop time, the session work time rounded to the nearest tenth of an hour, the cummulative work time for the project, the number of photographs taken, a work description and my signature. The work session time, the cum project time and the number of photographs take were always entered in the left margin. Thus, I gave myself credit for every 6 minute increment of time I spent on the project and every accomplishment was recorded.

When the film was processed I went back to the log and entered the date each photograph was taken on the back of the photograph with a black "Sharpie" and inserted them in an expandable photo album. The album is currently 7.5" thick and weighs approximately 20 pounds.

There was never a question in my mind that I was building an airplane. Sometimes it is the process that keeps you going and not the final product.

Bob Axsom
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-06-2006, 07:12 PM
jany77 jany77 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: monterey ,ca
Posts: 105
Default rv

before i did decision about what rv i can build i was studying plans for about 8 months i find too many thinks that are not correct or are not in there ,when the empenage kit arrives (rv-3) i didnot follow the plans ,before that i had time to make some template or jigs to make the work easyier ,so after i get the kit i first used all my jigs and fabricate all the parts in like 9 hours (hinge,trim all spars,vs-307,hs-308 lay and trim all skins for elevators rudder etc) so i had all parts ready to start put together i did not use any shears all im using is small router bid , its cuts like butter fast and simple no yaky or scrachy or whatever edges, corners, nice and clean cut ,what was the bigest waste time is deburre and smothed all edges but it had to be done properly ,since im building my plane in my friend (instructors) hanger and pay rent that make me stay on project ,i finished my empenage in about 110 hours total no single punche hole ,one more think why i chose rv-3 ,i cannot afford more expensive plane and im cabinet maker ,that mean every day im building from scrach so i was not afraid pick this one good luck all of you and stay on working your plane
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-07-2006, 09:23 AM
flymustangs flymustangs is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 122
Default Thanks!

I want to thank everyone for the feedback here and offline. It?s been a tremendous help. I think I?m past it now and hopefully have some tools to get past it the next time it happens without having to bug all of you. I would really love to follow the suggestion of going to Sun n Fun, but it?s just not possible this year.

I did have a couple of very productive building sessions the past couple of days. I?ve also acquired (picking it up today) a well-proven fuselage jig from a local builder. There is a break in the weather today so I might be able to go get a flying fix in my ?Star.

Thanks again!
__________________
Ken Simmons
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-07-2006, 11:34 PM
jdmunzell jdmunzell is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hamilton, VA
Posts: 419
Default

As Dennis Weaver playing "McCloud" would say..."..'ere you go!"

Jeff
-8 wings ( sloooooooww..build)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-08-2006, 03:58 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

One more item that comes to mind as I near completion ("near" is a relative term) of my ultra-slow-build 4. I can say without a doubt that if I ever do it again (doubtful) that I could do it WAAAAY faster. There are just so many "gotchas" on the 4's and 3's that you end up doing a lot of stuff twice and spend hours puzzling over vague instructions/plans. That being said, if you can find a recent builder to get involved in your project I think it could damned near cut the build time in half. Also, build duplicate structures at the same time. The wings take a long time and are quite repetitive, but the second one goes much, much faster. Having an experienced builder on the job and doing em both at once would make a huge difference. Same goes for flaps, ailerons, elevators, etc.

How bout this: A category on this list called "Gotchas". It could be broken down by subassembly I suppose. Not so much tips, but stuff that in hindsight should've been done differently. Then, when somebody's getting ready to start on his trim tab for example, he could go to the trim tab section and see all the stuff to watch out for. This is coming from a guy who didn't even know about sites like this until the fuse kit.
__________________
Steve Zicree
Fullerton, Ca. w/beautiful 2.5 year old son
RV-4 99% built and sold
Rag and tube project well under way

paid =VAF= dues through June 2013
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.