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04-04-2010, 07:49 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 306
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AD Applicability
The text of the ECI cylinder AD identifies applicability as: (d) This AD applies to the Lycoming Engines (formerly Textron Lycoming) models 320, 360, and 540 series, "Parallel Valve," reciprocating engines listed in Table 1 of this AD, with ECi cylinder assembly, part number (P/N) AEL65102 series "Titan," and with cylinder head, P/N AEL85099, installed.
The important point is that the AD applies to Lycoming engines with the specified ECI cylinders installed, not to the cylinders themselves.
For example, I have a TMX IO-360 engine from Mattituck. The engine data plate identifies it as a TMX Experimental Aircraft Engine. Although it is built with PMA Lycoming parts, it is not a Lycoming engine, and it is not listed in Table 1 of the AD. Consequently, the AD is not specifically applicable to this engine.
This doesn't mean that I can or should ignore the AD. I am still responible for maintaing the aircraft in a conditioin for safe operation, and this AD informs me that certain cylinders that may be installed on my engine are subject to failure. One way to address the problem would be to comply with the specific requirements of the AD. However, a suitable alternate means of compliance could also be used.
The particular case of the TMX engines is certainly not applicable to all Experimental aircraft, but it does illustrate that the cylinder AD applicability is not black and white.
Fortunately, I recieved my new TMX IO-360 about 3 months ago, and my cylinders are not in the range of affected serial numbers.
__________________
Dave Cole RV-7 N97DC reserved
dave.cole@cox.net
Started SB April 2004
Hope to fly in 2011
Last edited by Dave Cole : 04-04-2010 at 09:01 AM.
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04-04-2010, 02:21 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Pomona, ks
Posts: 77
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I love a good AD debate. . .
Since we are using Advisory Circulars instead of FAR's I'd thought I'd throw in another FAA piece of paperwork. . .EAA members might be familar with this since it was in direct response to the EAA request for clarification after the now "infamous" AC from 1995.
Report to the Aircraft Certification Management Team, Airworthiness Directive Applicability Team, April 28-30, 1998: ?A type design can exist only with a type certificate, and only after a showing of compliance with applicable requirements and approval by the FAA. A non-TC‟d aircraft cannot have a type design. ?Type design‟ as defined in ?21.31 is the intent of Part 21.? And, ?The wording of the rules shows clearly that in writing the rules, FAA had no intention of issuing AD‟s for non-TC‟d aircraft. ?39.1 requires that the aircraft have a type design as defined in ?21.31. A non-TC‟d aircraft has no type design. ?21.31 requires that the TC holder report product safety problems to the FAA, and ?21.99 requires that the TC holder prepare corrective fixes. A non-TC‟d aircraft has no TC holder. There is no credible interpretation of existing rules that implies FAA ever intended to issue AD‟s against non-TC‟d aircraft.?

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04-04-2010, 10:05 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,412
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In consideration of the above....
Why would any do-it-yourselfer want to own a TC'd aircraft, especially with VAN's service bulletin system online?
I'm planning to sell the Cessna when the RV-9 is up and running.
__________________
Scott Emery
http://gallery.eaa326.org/v/members/semery/
EAA 668340, chapter 326 & IAC chapter 67
RV-8 N89SE first flight 12/26/2013
Yak55M, and the wife has an RV-4
There is nothing-absolute nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing around with Aeroplanes
(with apologies to Ratty)
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04-05-2010, 08:23 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC & CA
Posts: 907
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FYI New ECI Cylinder Inventory
Today, I placed my order for four new cylinders. The current remaining inventory of new cylinders in stock are three.
Regards,
__________________
Tom Valenzia
RV8 (Sold)
RV12 Jabiru 2200 Powered (Sold)
Dues contributor since 2007
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make all of them yourself...Anonymous
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04-09-2010, 05:04 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 447
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WOW!!! AERO Drops ECI?
This is news to me- If A.E.R.O drops ECI then what will happen to ECI!
The Email I just received says it all- AERO wants to sell a reliable product and ECI no longer fits that case (Pun intended!)- That eliminates ECI as a kit engine for me(maybe). This is big news I think! Anyone with more in depth news??
Now I had a chance to read the lawsuit between ECI and AERO… what a tragic mess!
Last edited by AZtailwind : 04-09-2010 at 05:15 PM.
Reason: more reading...
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04-09-2010, 05:23 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZtailwind
This is news to me- If A.E.R.O drops ECI then what will happen to ECI!
The Email I just received says it all- AERO wants to sell a reliable product and ECI no longer fits that case (Pun intended!)- That eliminates ECI as a kit engine for me(maybe). This is big news I think! Anyone with more in depth news??
Now I had a chance to read the lawsuit between ECI and AERO? what a tragic mess!
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The way I read the letter from AERO, this isn't about quality of product, it's a legal wrestling match (with Type-A personalities) between two companies. I've never bought anything from AERO, although I would have if I'd needed replacement parts for my 100% ECI component engine. Now I guess I'll have to go elsewhere.
I think that AERO just reduced their customer base by a non-insignificant amount - they will only sell to people who want genuine Lycoming parts.
I unfortunately remember the days when Lcyoming parts were the only thing available, and their cylinders had become absolute junk. I think they are much better now - due to competition from ECI and Superior. Do we really want to go back to a sole-source system?
This is just two company's lawyers arguing in public.
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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04-09-2010, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 2,053
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I bought my ECI kit from AERO. Just received my tappet bodies (the last parts I was waiting for). I can tell you that the customer service at AERO was FLAWLESS. They were a bit embarrassed by ECI's delays. I assured them that I understood Aviation Supply Chains and that I was very happy the way everything turned out. ECI had an AD on their cylinders, big deal! Welcome to aviation, AD's are just part of life. There are lot's of worse AD's than cylinder problems. Without ECI you can get a fine set of overpriced Lycoming cylinders with 1950's technology. I am sure there are lots of Subie guys that are laughing the heads off right now. Overheating, bah!
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Tony Phillips
N524AP, RV 9 (tail wheel)
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04-14-2010, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,095
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I see it the same way Paul does. ECI isn't turning out a bad product, just a public pi$$ing contest. Maybe AERO will drop them forever...doesn't change the fact that there's demand for ECI's product. I've got their 0-360 kit, and bought it through AERO. The service from both companies was great.
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Sonny W
Boise, Idaho
RV-7A Flying!
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04-14-2010, 11:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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I read it a bit differently...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostpilot28
I see it the same way Paul does. ECI isn't turning out a bad product, just a public pi$$ing contest. Maybe AERO will drop them forever...doesn't change the fact that there's demand for ECI's product. I've got their 0-360 kit, and bought it through AERO. The service from both companies was great.
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...if a manufacturer is suing a major distributor (with a excellent, informative web site, BTW), what do you think the other distributors are going to think?
It could be that ECI products will be factory direct only in the future...
As far as the kit engines go, try calling all of the suppliers listed on the ECI web site. Lat time I checked they were all engine builders, and mark up the kit parts so much that makes it almost cheaper to buy an assembled engine from them... 
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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04-14-2010, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila
...if a manufacturer is suing a major distributor (with a excellent, informative web site, BTW), what do you think the other distributors are going to think?
It could be that ECI products will be factory direct only in the future...
As far as the kit engines go, try calling all of the suppliers listed on the ECI web site. Lat time I checked they were all engine builders, and mark up the kit parts so much that makes it almost cheaper to buy an assembled engine from them... 
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I hear what you're saying, Gil. I was only stating that I believe ECI has a great product, and my 2 seperate experiences with both ECI and AERO were very good. It does sound like a PR nightmare for ECI, but reading AERO's letter doesn't make me doubt the quality of their product.
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Sonny W
Boise, Idaho
RV-7A Flying!
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